Warmachine & HORDES Masters Qualifier II - 18. april 2015

arborsomniorum · Post by **arborsomniorum** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:11 pm

Pitanje u vezi lista> Igrači nose dve liste od 35 poena. Svaka lista mora da se odigra barem jednom. Isti karakter modeli ne mogu se pojaviti u obe liste (na primer, ukoliko neko igra Trolove, karakter solo Janissa Stonetide moze da se pojavi samo u jednoj listi, nikako u obe).

Da li mogu da ponesem Cryx i neku drugu frakciju, ili moram samo Cryx? Ako je da moram samo jednu frakciju, pretpostavljam da ne mogu da igram istog warcastera u obe liste?

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:19 pm

Isprobao sam deathclock sa Sunkarionom, i nisam imao problem da zavrsim u 42 minuta sa casterom koga znam da igram (a to je trenutno samo Kromac, jer sam samo njega vezbao). Medjutim kada sam uzeo castera koga ne igram, 42 minuta mi nije bilo bas dovoljno :D.

edit: hocu reci - mislim da bi bilo ne-cool dodatno smanjiti vreme u odnosu na pravila, prema nama koji smo manje igrali

.

Post by **Shunka** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:22 pm

Obe liste moraju biti iz iste fakcije, i moraju imati različitog castera. Različite verzije istog castera su dozvoljene.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:30 pm

Shunka wrote:Obe liste moraju biti iz iste fakcije, i moraju imati različitog castera. Različite verzije istog castera su dozvoljene.

Ovo. Obe liste moraju biti iz iste frakcije.

Jos uvek cekam da se vecina izjasni. U medjuvremenu sam razgovarao sa jos nekim igracima i mislim da sve vise naginjem ka opciji da prosirimo broj igraca, povecamo broj rundi na 5, igramo partije od 25 poena, s tim sto uvodimo jos jednu opciju: Divide and Conquer [2]. Sto znaci da svaka lista mora da se igra barem DVA puta. Ovime je cilj da se donekle ublazi efekat nekih listi koje u 25 poena mogu biti izuzetno razorne.

arborsomniorum · Post by **arborsomniorum** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:27 pm

Ova poslednja ideja zvuci odlicno. Onda se prijavljujem sa Cryx-om!

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:27 pm

OK - obviously the most important thing is that we do what is best for the community and it seems that a lot of players would rather smaller games and there is nothing wrong with that.

I would like to point out that the concept was to find out the best active 8 players over a series of qualifiers and for those 8 players to have 3 proper games where there were no excuses or complaints - as they have had a year to prepare and practice their ability to think in a tournament environment. Where there were no take backs or "I didn't mean to do that" excuses. The incentive was bragging rights and about 100 Euros worth of models - which was a prize to inspire the keen but also financially challenged A fund large enough to inspire effort and care. The 4 qualifiers were designed as a pathway (beginner's event to introduce steam roller, 35pt 2 list death clock, 35pt 2 list death clock with reserves, 42pt Death clock) leading to a proper master's event for the winners with active duty roster as played all over the world.

Now the flaw in the concept is not that certain players are nervous about playing 35pt games. Those players should be not entering the event as these are qualifiers for an event with a serious prize fund. The flaw is that the entire player base has grown and that players can't even get into the qualifiers. With a 3rd event planned for August in Novi Sad and the 4th Event in November this could pop up again. Given that the game is growing and going in the right direction then maybe it is better to drop the original concept and just play low point tournaments and leagues. That is fine and plenty of meta's go in for that. There are 'who's the boss' events, 'highlander', 'doubles', 'commander's crucible' and all kinds of other events that can be organised but they were not the concept. My motives for organising this series were selfish and designed to push players to regularly play 50 pt games SR games and make that the norm. If we drop the original concept it allows for events whenever there is a need for them and there is less incentive to win so players can experiment with less competitive lists.

Post by **Shunka** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:58 pm

I support pushing for a serious competitive 50pt tournament. Maybe we should split it - give up the escalation model and hold 50pt qualifiers with limited number of participants, and have unrelated casual tournaments where all would play?
And maybe once a year have a huge two day event!

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:29 pm

While I understand the concern, I am against dropping the concept. There must be something that people will look forward to - and I believe the tournament at the end of the year will be perfect. I also do not think that we are losing anything - if the first tournament was about one list and timed turns, this one is about using different lists and deathclock. We are still progressing, just taking baby steps. If you really want this to be regular 35 point affair, then we have to take into consideration that 5 rounds require 7 and a half houts, in the worst case. Add one break and downtime - it can take up to nine hours. Can everyone afford this? Some people need to travel, some have kids and families, and some just don't want to spend all that time playing WM. Many people do not realize how big is the burnout after playing (seriously) five consecutive rounds.
If we go this way, then we probably have to start at 11h - can we start that early (this is probably a question for Dule)?

Post by **Mrzimsvee** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:04 pm

11h is fine with me, but not earlier.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:11 pm

Ako je 11h u redu kao pocetak turnira, mislim da da onda imamo resenje.

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:01 pm

Super \:D/ .

Ajde pricacu ja sa Duletom danas, pa mogu da probam da organizujem jednom mesecno turnire. Liga vec postoji, a kad se zavrsi videcu nesto slicnog tipa da organizujem.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:59 am

OK, imamo resenje - broj ucesnika je prosiren, nema rezervi. Igra se 5 rundi, 35 poena, dve liste, svaka mora da se odigra dva puta. Turnir ce poceti u 11h, tako da ce se zavrsiti u 8h u najgorem slucaju (maksimalno vreme trajanja svake runde + pauza).

Imamo veliku sansu da odrzimo jedan od najvecih, ako ne I najveci WM/H turnir ikada :D

Post by **Zekina banda** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:06 pm

Mislis u Srbiji

Razmislite o dva dana.

BoltaFodda · Post by **BoltaFodda** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:06 am

Prijava - ne znam sta.

Licno, imam ludu nadu da cu da ofarbam moje trolove na vreme, al ako ne bice Everblight. Nadam se da moze da ostane ovako do zadnjeg trenutka zbog radi mojih licnih poticaja da konacno prionem na farbanje.

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:47 pm

A bit bored at work so I thought I'd do something unproductive.

75% of lists are Warmachine and we are missing Retribution, Skorne and Trollbloods (unless Uros gets his painting done).

One month to go and I am about to play only my 4th game with Everblight - let's hope they are as broken as everyone says they are!!!

joggy · Post by **joggy** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:12 pm

evo i ja da se prijavim sa zakasnjenjem, da ne bi bio turnir bez skorne-a

Post by **deka** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Pa zar Dalibor ne igra Retribution of Something???

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 pm

joggy wrote:evo i ja da se prijavim sa zakasnjenjem, da ne bi bio turnir bez skorne-a

You've kind of made my graph all complicated now

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:59 am

So, if Uros does paint his trolls....

Come on Djordje - enter with retribution! The only faction not represented.

Post by **Zekina banda** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:00 pm

Convergence of something

Histericni Istoricar · Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:55 pm

Milinovicu sve sto nije Kador je ono, a i vecina u Kadoru mu je ono.

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:28 pm

Bjelajac in with angry elves

22 players and we have all the factions.....

(Last pie chart I swear)

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:31 pm

Skorne, Everblight and Minion players are more fat than those playing Trollbloods, Retribution, Cyriss, Cygnar. Or so the graph says.

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:08 am

Dzon Vejn wrote:Skorne, Everblight and Minion players are more fat than those playing Trollbloods, Retribution, Cyriss, Cygnar. Or so the graph says.

By that logic with Nemanja and Nikica playing cryx.....

arborsomniorum · Post by **arborsomniorum** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:01 am

I'm good enough filler in Cryx

See you guys in less than a month, I can't wait for this tournament to happen!

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:20 pm

arborsomniorum wrote:I'm good enough filler in Cryx

The Venethrax of the trio!!

arborsomniorum wrote:See you guys in less than a month, I can't wait for this tournament to happen!

Yep, looking forward to it too. It's going to be Legen.... Wait for it....

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:24 pm

OK, lista ucesnika je azurirana.
Pobednici na ovom turniru ce dobiti i odgovarajuce tematske majice - ocekujte da se slike istih pojave negde tokom sledece nedelje. Dizajn je vec odavno gotov, a sada krecem u realizaciju :D

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:03 pm

A suggestion;

Rather than publish all lists by the 15th or whatever can we just publish which warlocks/warcasters we intend to use?

Here's why;
- It is the most important thing to read up on anyway.
- Having all 22 players get that organised and remember to send the email to Miroslav is at best, quite optimistic. What happens if 3 or 4 players don't get their lists out - do they get penalised?
- If we see only which warnouns are going to be played, players can then tailor the meat in their lists in the last 2-3 days based on that information.
For example - all lists are published in full as per the current proposal and a cryx player has listed eGoreshade and 30 banes. Players that can't deal with infantry swarms and stealth are locked in and can only wish that they don't face this player in the event. I suggest it is better to see that a cryx player is playing eGorehade, research the caster and see that he favours the bane spam and then (even though you are locked into your two casters) you can add a unit with sprays (for example) to one of your lists.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:14 pm

I think that the community already voted for the lists to go public - and the results are very clear.
All players will receive multiple PMs week before the deadline. Notifications will be sent two more times before the deadline.
If the players do not submit their lists before the deadline, they will be penalized - they automatically lose Game 1 (it will count as a scenario win for their opponent).

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:48 pm

OK, I take it back.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:18 am

OK, datum odrzavanja turnira se polako priblizava. Zamolio bih sve ucesnike da polako spremaju svoje liste - ukoliko ih neki od vas imaju spremne vec sada, mogu ih poslati na PP vec sada. Podsetnici za predaju listi ce biti poslati svima za nekoliko dana (od 8. aprila).
Vazna napomena: Zamolio bih vas da (ako vec to niste ucinili do sada) procitate pravila za Steamroller 2015 i obratite paznju na stranu 8, gde su izlistani ciljevi koje igraci mogu izabrati. Svaki igrac je u obavezi da uz svaku svoju listu prijavi i jedan od ovih ciljeva (moze i isti u obe liste). Kada scenario zahteva upotrebu "friendly faction objective", svaki igrac ce koristiti cilj koji je prijavio uz tu listu (sto znaci da ih necete koristiti u svim partijama). Imajte na umu da ovi markeri mogu biti veoma korisni tokom partije, tako da ih pazljivo birajte.

Kada je slanje listi u pitanju, zamolio bih igrace da koriste web aplikaciju po imenu FORWARD KOMMANDER, kojoj mozete pristupiti na adresi: http://www.forwardkommander.com/ . Apilikacija je vrlo jednostavna za koriscenje - odaberite sistem (WM/Hordes), zatim armiju, velicinu partije i na kraju, modele koje cete igrati. Kada napravite listu, klikom na opciju "Clipboard" dobicete mogucnost da vasu listu izvezete kao plain text, bb code ili HTML. Odaberite klasican tekstualni zapis (plain text) i tu listu stavite u poruku za prijavu. Isto ucinite i za drugu listu.

bjelajac · Post by **bjelajac** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:57 pm

Postoji jedan problem koji vidim u Forward kommanderu za obe svoje armije, pa pretpostavljam da sličnih neslaganja ima kod svih frakcija. Neki kasteri i theme liste jednostavno nedostaju. Nisam gledao detaljno da li postoje svi modeli, uniti, soloi itd. Opšti utisak je da otkada postoji War Room, da se online aplikacije jednostavno ne ažuriraju onoliko često koliko bi bilo potrebno.

Za retribution fale:
Issyria - kompletan kaster i theme force
Kaylessa - Force Wall NQ Theme force

Za trolove fale:
eBorka - kompletan kaster
Calandra - Elemental Evolution NQ Theme Force

Šta raditi u ovim slučajevima?
Poz,

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:36 pm

Miroslav, on the first page it says that the lists need to be submitted by the Wednesday the 15th of April. As I had a big testing session planned over the Easter weekend I hope that this date still stands?
Djordje, the Forward Kommander format is pretty simple. Once you make any list you can edit that list directly for the missing models.

There is also this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/495 ... _Sheet.pdf which would be worth filling out and printing out for the event itself. It has a space for the objectives and places to mark your opponents and record cps and army points.

arborsomniorum · Post by **arborsomniorum** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:24 pm

Drugari, ima li neko za pozajmicu withershadow combine, darragha i cankerworma? Narucio sam ih, ali ne stizu pre turnira, a mnogo bi mi pomoglo s obzirom da bih igrao dve liste koje bas nemaju mnogo toga zajednickog... Javite na pm ili ovde, castim picem!

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:02 pm

@bjelajac:
Nisam bio svestan toga da neki modeli nedostaju na FWDK. U tom slucaju, zamolio bih igrace da koriste link koji je Rik prosledio, gde se nalazi Army Sheet koji se moze popunjavati i da posaljete isti na adresu [email protected].. Ko zeli, moze i dalje koristiti Forward Kommander i slati listu na opisan nacin.

Izmenjeno je i obavestenje u prvoj poruci ove teme.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:52 pm

Dodata je napomena u vezi proxy modela - proxy modeli, u bilo kakvom obliku, nisu dozvoljeni. Izuzetak su konvertovani modeli, dok je jasno koja je osnovna jedinica u pitanju. Isto tako, morate imati odgovarajucu stat-kartu za svaki vas model. Nije dozvoljeno koriscenje modela koji umesto stat-karte imaju odstampanu stranicu iz knjige pravila.

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:43 pm

Nadam se da je war room aplikacija na ipadu dovoljna?

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:09 pm

Jeste, stoji u napomeni na prvoj strani. Lično, mislim da je upotreba tableta za nijansu sporija i manje praktična od upotrebe samih karata - jer ukoliko protivnik zatraži da vidi neku kartu, morate da mu predajete ceo tablet. Važno je da igrači u svakom trenutku mogu da bez ikakvih problema dobiju jasnu informaciju o stanju nekog modela i njegovim pravilima. War Room ovaj uslov ispunjava (mada ne idealno, po mom mišljenju) tako da je upotreba ove aplikacije dozvoljena.

Bathory · Post by **Bathory** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:27 pm

PainBringer wrote:Dodata je napomena u vezi proxy modela - proxy modeli, u bilo kakvom obliku, nisu dozvoljeni. Izuzetak su konvertovani modeli, dok je jasno koja je osnovna jedinica u pitanju. Isto tako, morate imati odgovarajucu stat-kartu za svaki vas model. Nije dozvoljeno koriscenje modela koji umesto stat-karte imaju odstampanu stranicu iz knjige pravila.

Da li to znači da, ako sam kupio neku figuru koja je dolazila sa MKI stat-kartom -zamisli, ima igraca koji su igrali po starim pravilima(eyriss,kell bailoch,rupert, anastasya..) i nemam novu MKII stat-kartu, ne mogu da koristim stranicu iz pravila, nego MORAM da imam/kupim pojedinačne stat karte? A ako npr ne želim da kupim ceo Mercovski dek,jel to znači da ne mogu da koristim figure?

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:03 pm

Bathory wrote: Da li to znači da, ako sam kupio neku figuru koja je dolazila sa MKI stat-kartom -zamisli, ima igraca koji su igrali po starim pravilima(eyriss,kell bailoch,rupert, anastasya..) i nemam novu MKII stat-kartu, ne mogu da koristim stranicu iz pravila, nego MORAM da imam/kupim pojedinačne stat karte? A ako npr ne želim da kupim ceo Mercovski dek,jel to znači da ne mogu da koristim figure?

Izmenio sam prvu stranu, legalno je da odštampate stranicu iz knjige pravila ukoliko nemate kartu za model. Imajte na umu da možete da mi pošaljete listu karata koje vam nedostaju, pa možemo u posebnoj temi da organizujemo pozajmicu karata za učesnike turnira. Ja na raspolaganju imam špilove za Trolove, Everblight i Khador.

Istovremeno, dodat je još jedan izuzetak od proxy pravila: imate pravo da umesto Epic warcaster/warlock modela koristite njegovu osnovnu verziju (i obrnuto), osim ukoliko model nije deo jedinice (Warcaster Unit) ili zauzima vecu bazu (Epic Reznik, Epic Thagrosh, Vlad3, Kreoss3, itd.). Dakle, dozvoljeno je da koristite model pVlad-a umesto eVald-a, pKreoss-a umesto eKreoss-a, pDoomshaper-a umesto e-Doomshaper-a i slicno. Odgovarajuca stat-karta se podrazumeva. Nije dozvoljeno koristiti osnovni model Grim Angusa umesto epic modela, jer je epic model warcaster unit i dolazi u kompletu sa svojim drugarima pigmejima.

Da li ste za to da se liste objave na forumu nakon roka za predaju: