Mage: the Awakening

Vampire, Wraith, Mage, Changeling, Werewolf...

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Mage: the Awakening

Post by Dawngreeter »

Poceli daily previews na http://www.white-wolf.com
Dok ne bude nesto opipljivo i konkretno, nema svrhe da copy/pastujem sve sta okace na sajt. Tako da, koga zanimaju komadici i delovi pozadinske price i tome slicno, nek skokne svaki radni dan na gore pomenuti sajt. A koga mrzi da se cima, verovatno cu sve bitnije informacije okaciti ovde. Valjda.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Izgleda da je ovo konacni Mage logo:
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Svidja mi se pozadina. Posto su sve osnovne knjige stampane na srebrnom papiru, cini mi se da ce Mage corebook biti najlepsi od tri.
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Post by Slartibartfast »

Ajde, ti lepo DG prebaci celu Mage knjigu (kad je nadjes) u jedan post, ovde na Zmaju, pa da konacno vidimo neke konkretne plodove tvog rada 8) .

A pod dva, mrzi nas da idemo na White Wolf pa te u ime nas nekih fanova WoD -a da nas redovno obavestavas o vestima na pomenutom sajtu. Izgledas mnogo revnostan, pa da to iskorostimo 8) .

A sad, u kom je opstem fazonu Mage? Nadam se da nije glupava, klasicna pojava jednog maga koji trckara po tamnicama u odori i sa spellbook -om :roll: . U stvari, znam da nije to, ali opet ne znam sta to jeste...
Meditations of evolution increasingly vaster: of the moon invisible in incipient lunation, approaching perigee: ...of the procession of equinoxes: ...of the parallax or parallactic drift of socalled fixed stars, in reality evermoving from immeasurably remote eons to infinitely remote futures in comparison with which the years, threescore and ten, of alloted human life formed a parenthesis of infinitesimal brevity.

-Excerpt of meditations during demonstrations of various constellations; Ulysses
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Nemamo pojma sta je Mage. Apsolutno nikakvog. Jedino sto znamo je da se najvise od svih novih WoD igara razlikuje od svoje stare inkarnacije. A do kraja ove nedelje ce nam samo davati odlomke pozadinske mitoloske legende koja nece mnogo otkriti. Tako da... sit and wait, that's all we can do.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Ispravka. Odjednom se zna mnogo vise. Medjutim, necu prepricavati sve na sta sam naisao jer nisam siguran koliko su informacije zaista ispravne (mosh' misliti koliko su forumi verodojstojni izvori). Za pocetak recimo da izgleda da ce imati deset umesto devet Arcana (tj. Sfera). Nova je Death, a Entropy je sada Fate. Masala. I nisu sve Arcane nekome primarne jer postoji samo 5 'birth' grupacija, isto kao i u novim Vampire i Werewolf igrama, svaka sa po jednom glavnom Arcanom.

Rote-ovi postaju mnogo bitniji mechanic-wise i fast-casting ili freeform casting imaju jake penale. I dalje su validna opcija, ali ce svako pre hteti da nauci Rote nekog efekta koji planira iole cesce da koristi.

Ne postoji The Truth. Amen to that. Do sada me je uvek iritiralo sto je Mage mitologija u World of Darkness-u bila 'validnija' od svih ostalih. E, to sad vise nije tako.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Ove nedelje su Path-ovi. Nesto kao klanovi vampirima ili plemena vukodlacima, PAth je 'tip' MAge-a. Zavisi od toga ka kojem od pet Watchtower-a je MAge-ova dusa isla prilikom Budjenja.

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Acanthus

Enchanters on the Path of Thistle, Scions of the Watchtower of the Lunargent Thorn in the Realm of Arcadia, Kingdom of Enchantment and Abode of the Fae


A mage who walks the Path of Thistle that winds through the realm of Arcadia to the Watchtower of the Lunargent Thorn (the "moonsilver thorn"). Arcadia is known dimly to Sleepers through the legends of faeries and the nymphs and dryads of the plant kingdom. In Arcadia, everything is enchanted, wearing a magical glamour of intense beauty—or ugliness. Things tend toward extremes; there is very little compromise in the abode of the Fae. Change is common and encouraged; those who walk this Path tend to be fickle and ever eager to try new things.

Acanthus mages are especially adept at performing magic that affects destiny and the fluid progression of time. Fairy stories from around the world reflect the timelessness of the realm, as people who enter places under its influence and spend an evening often exit many years later, as time is measured in the Fallen World. Likewise, a promise or oath is binding, and none can betray it without terrible consequences.

Acanthus, also called "enchanters," are often thought of as the archetypal "divine fools," for they seem to achieve their goals by not trying or by waiting for things to come to them. But this over-reliance on luck can be to their detriment, as they spurn patience and plunge themselves into situations that are perhaps best tackled instead with some degree of foresight and strategy. They are the wild cards of the Awakened world, both loved and hated by others for it.
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Mastigos

Warlocks on the Path of Scourging, Scions of the Watchtower of the Iron Gauntlet in the Realm of Pandemonium, Kingdom of Nightmares and Abode of Demons


A mage who walks the Path of Scourging through the nightmarish labyrinth of the realm of Pandemonium, at the center of which is the Watchtower of the Iron Gauntlet. Pandemonium is also called the Realm of Nightmares, for its echoes appear to Sleepers most often in their most terrible and dreaded dreams, where they fall from endless heights, never to hit the ground, or run for what seems like hours but never make any headway. Their worst fears or repressed emotions are brought forth in places touched by Pandemonium, to be examined and judged by strangers who mock and condemn them. Through such a gauntlet of humiliation and submission, a soul is scourged of its sins and purified to re-unite, cleansed and free, with the divine.

Mastigos mages work magic that affects the mind and the space all around us. The darkest corners of the unconscious mind are readily apparent here, worn like badges, while all roads twist in upon themselves, leading the traveler to confrontations with his own failings.

While Mastigos "warlocks" are often associated with diabolists and demon-summoners—those who make deals with the Devil—they are more properly the masters of such infernal urges, those who, by dint of will, command that within them which is most unsavory. While all men sin, the Mastigos learn from the foibles of the mortal coil and use them to attain higher power.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

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Moros

Necromancers on the Path of Doom, Scions of the Watchtower of the Lead Coin in the Realm of Stygia, Kingdom of Crypts and Abode of Shades

A mage who walks the Path of Doom, treading the barren wastes and black rivers of the realm of Stygia to attain the Watchtower of the Lead Coin. There is a price to be paid for entering places influenced by Stygia, and there are many toll gates on the road the soul must travel through death to attain new life. This price isn't measured in mundane lucre but the treasure reaped by the soul during life. If its weight is light, like the precious metals, the soul can rise above its death, but if it is heavy, like lead, the soul must remain in the abode of shades until it can relinquish its grasping hold on life.

Mages who traverse the Abyss to Stygia perform the magic of death, affecting all forms of inert matter, for Stygia is the place of shells—whether the hollow shells of egos worn in life or the heavy shells of material greed. Whatever is most heavy falls to the influence of this realm: ghosts who are anchored to the world they have already left, material treasures that distract the soul from its true work, and even darkness, which weighs down the light.

Moros necromancers are often stereotyped as dour and quiet, and there are certainly those mages who fit that description, but this image is based more on others' misunderstanding of what mages who work so close to death must be like. If a Moros is gloomy, it is more because he is all too aware of the doom to which others will fall, while he rises above it all, alchemically transformed by his sojourn in the undiscovered country to which all must eventually travel.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

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Obrimos

Theurgists on the Path of the Mighty, Scions of the Watchtower of the Golden Key in the Realm of the Aether, Kingdom of the Celestial Spheres and Abode of Angels


A mage who walks the Path of the Mighty, gliding on celestial winds through the realm of the Aether and the firmament of the stars to reach the Watchtower of the Golden Key. Only the elect can enter here, guarded by the Hosts with their swords of fire. Lightning strikes any who fly with false wings, just as Icarus was downed by his hubris. He who would wield the Flame Supernal must not flinch in the face of adversity, and cleave to one of the many visions of the divine.

The Obrimos control the very forces of the heavens themselves, as well as the subtle essence whence those forces derive. The Realm of the Aether bristles with energy—sometimes too much energy, threatening to burn those not shielded with divine purpose. The raw power of the prima materia, the fire of Creation that fuels magic, is born here and meted out by Providence.

Obrimos theurgists are often feared by other mages, for their temperaments as much as their judgmental attitudes. Nonetheless, their strength is admired by all, and they are the first called upon by others when the need is dire.
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Post by GM Ranko »

Verovatno ne cudi ali Mage (bar u staroj ediciji) je imao jedan od najboljih magijskih sistema koje sam video. Doduse, nije za Instant upotrebu, tj. ne verujem da bi dobro radio kod nemastovitih ili abuser igraca...

Ali mnogo dobar sistem, bio sam ga preradio za jedan od svojih svetova...

R
"AAAAAAAARGH AAAARGH AAAARGH"
"Jel to sve?"
"Nije, ima jos - AAAAA i onda AAAAARRRR"
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Nisam bio na forumu malo duze vreme pa je dosta toga u vezi Awakeninga doslo i proslo. Koga je zanimalo, mogao je da procita sve to na WW sajtu, naravno. Ovde cu okaciti samo cover sliku osnovne knjige:

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Post by Rat with a tool »

Uh, mnogo lepa knjiga!Za razliku od Forsakena koja i nije nesto specijalno. :cry:
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Imam knjigu, i moram reci da je u pitaju jebeno najlepsa RPG knjiga koju sam ikada video. Dok je ne uzmete u rukama ne mozete ni da zamislite koliko je do jaja. Preko gore prikazane slike na koricama foil-ovano stoji Mage "pentagram". Znaci, nije iscrtan na samoj slici, ali se presijava preko nje. Efekat je zastrasujuce ocaravajuc.

Kako izgleda Mage "pentagram" za one koji vec ne znaju, moze se videti na ovoj slici:
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Mala je slika pa se slabo vidi, al' nigde nisam nasao bolju.
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Post by Corvin »

SAmo jedno malo pitanje, gde si kupio knjigu i koliko para? =D
A verovao sam mu kao bratu, sto znaci nimalo...

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Post by Dawngreeter »

35e, u Raven-u u Batajnici.
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Post by Awakened »

Evo, procitao sam i novi Mage (tj. sve sem beskonacnih rote-ova). Da li ima nekakva lista rote-ova sa sve dice pool-om za taj rote? Bas bi mi koristio za igru.

Bolji review kad budem imao vise vremena, a za sad sveopsti utisak:

Drk drk, svrsh svrsh.
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Post by Megabaja »

A jel ima eutanathosa? Mmm... Eutanathos... :)
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Nema.
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Post by Megabaja »

dough
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Post by Awakened »

Elem, odakle poceti? Da bi se shvatio kvalitet ovog sistema valjalo bi se prvo podsetiti originalnog Mage: The Ascension-a i kreativnog procesa koji je do njega doveo:

WW Employe 1: "E gde si brate, imam super ideju za novi RPG"
WW Employe 2: "Cek samo malo" *svari dzoint* "E ajd' da cujem"
1: "Pa pazi ovako.."
2: "E, cekaj cekaj... Prvo uzmi i ti jedan"
1: "Ok" *svari dzoint* "pa eto, imas Magove, i tako to, i oni teze Ascension-u, i tako to, i bore se protiv Tehnokratije, i tako to"
2: "Aha, super super" (svari jos pet-sest dok 1 prica i duva mu u lice)
1: "Je je, i znas sta bi jos bilo super, sad sam se setio"
2: "Aha, je je, i ubaci malo cyberpunka"
1: "U da i cyberpunk, ekstra si se setio"
2: "I knjiga da svetli u mraku"
1: "E da to moramo"
... I tako sve dok su imali sita.

Elem, stari Mage je imao Ideju. Super Ideju. Vanserijsku. Ali likovi su pokusali previse. Ideju su razvodnjili, u sveopstem razvodnjavanju su propustili da razrade osnovne koncepte od kojih je citava prica zavisila, i eto... Makar je pocetni zanos sistemom bio super.

E, onda ulazi novi Mage. Uzeli su ono sto je glavno od starog - mogucnost da Magovi svojom voljom kontrolisu stvarnost i rade sta im padne na pamet. I onda su krenuli od toga. Celu su pricu uprostili i napravili mnogo manje apstraktnom. Nema vise Ascensiona, Seeking-a, Avatara, Fall-a i tako toga. Sad imaju jednostavnu pricu o Atlantidi, i vidjenju sveta prema Platonskoj filozofiji. Prica mnogo bliza zapadnjackom mentalitetu i stavise - nije toliko zahtevna od igraca i GM-a, sto ima dve prednosti - prvo, mozete sacuvati ideje i za neku sledecu kampanju umesto da ih sve spiskate u jednoj, i drugo, mnogo je lakse igracima i GM-u da se razumeju.

Takodje, uzeli su jednu temu, i dosledno su se drzali te teme. I to dobre teme. Moc Kvari. Opet nesto jednostavno, a mocno, sto svako moze razumeti, sa cim se svako moze identifikovati, i na kraju, nesto cemu se moze prici na bezbroj nacina. I to kakvih - ideje su vec rastrkane po knjizi - lagani gubitak Wisdom-a i put u ludilo poput originalnog Humanity-a, Geteovska magija prizivanja unutrasnjih demona, paktovi sa demonima i stvorenjima iz Lovkraftovog Mythos-a, i dve strane poslastice - Tremera Lich-evi. Ludilo, perverzija i sve ostalo dobro.

E onda, kod magije imam i jednu zamerku. Nema vise one dve strane guidelines-a za sta mozes uraditi sa kojom tackom cega. Sad umesto toga imate 2345 rote-ova, iliti spellova. Nije da se bunim jer su i rote-ovi dojajni element, i cine magiju onako... vaznijom. Pre, magija je bila "the ultimate power in the universe" i za magiju bi bacali 3 kocke, a bedniku na ulici bi naneli oko 5 demidza (pre soakovanja). Sad uz pomoc rote-ova za magiju bacate 5,6,7,8 ili 15 kockica, magije su mnogo pouzdanije, efikasnije, jednom reciju - RADE. A i izbor magija koje su pretvorili u rotes je odlican. Gledali Equillibrium? E, pa ima Space 1 rote Spatial Map koji vam napravi u glavi mapu gde se svi nalaze oko tebe i mozes da na njih pucas bez ikakvih penala. Matrix? Sta hoces. Akcija je skroz filmska i lozacka.

Atmosfera je isto tako uproscena. Umesto gothic-cyberpunk sa primesama okultnog, new age-a i travke pobrljavke sad preovladjuje jednostavna, jedinstvena atmosfera okultnog horora. Potraga za davno izgubljenim tajnama, demoni, licimuri, matori magovi koji bi prodali testise kako bi mogli da imaju kozu kao kameleon (!?), uklete lokacije, duhovi, Indiana Jones... Al fali Tehnokratija. Novi negativci, Seers of the Throne jednostavno nemaju taj smek negativca. Mislim, pre ste imali Agenta Smitha, a sad imate "Sredovecnu zenu sa propalom karijerom u marketingu, koja trazi jednog maga da ga jebe i onda ubije". Ma super.

Sve u svemu, spremam kampanju. I Magovi ce svi da nose crne kapute, koristiti po dva oruzija odjednom i biti neuporedovo vise kul od svih ostalih vampira, vukodlaka i druge boranije. Zasto? Zato sto posle citanja knjige, jasno je da su svi magovi klonovi Stivena Sigala.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Fin wrap-up, slazem se sa skoro svime izrecenim. Stari Mage je meni uvek bila odlicna igra koju nikada nisam uspeo da 'uhvatim' jer se jako zle stvari desavaju kada moj Virtual Adept reality hacker postoji u istoj druzini sa necijim Dreamspeaker shamanom. Nova igra cvrsto stoji u 'misticizmu i magiji' sto je svakako poboljsanje. No, ipak mi nedostaje ideja Avatara. Al' to je otprilike jedina zamerka.

E, a Awakening i dalje ima guideline-ove za efekte po tufni, ako se ne varam? Svaka tufna sfere ima neke generalne principe koje moze da primerni. Strana 131, redom za svaku tufnu izlistava Magical Practices koji ti postaju dostupni. Mada akcenat jeste na Rote-ovima, freeform magija je dosta slabija nego ranije. A to je nesto sto mi se takodje svidja.
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Post by Awakened »

Generalni principi na nivou "Sa cetiri tacke ste veliki baja. Sa pet tacaka ste OGROMNI BAJA". No dobro. Na kraju, tu su onih 350 rote-ova.

E, kad smo vec kod rote-ova nasao sam ovo: http://www.zobiegames.com/mtaw_spell_list.xls. Manje-vise neprocenjiva stvar ako igrate Mage-a.

I sta znam. Ne bi podcenjivao improvizovanu magiju, bas zbog onog Gnosis + Arcana rola. Na samom pocetku rote-ovi su majka, ali kasnije se manje-vise izjednacava, sem ukoliko se lik ne specijalizuje za neki rote i bustuje sve sto utice na bacanje tog rote-a. A i opet improvizovanjem dodjete na isto, samo je malo efikasnije bustovati dve stvari (od koje za jednu dobijate dodatni xp), nego gomilu atributa i skilova i arcana sfera. Naravno, ukoliko Mag bustuje i Gnosis pa da moze da prebaci 5 tacaka u nekom atributu, rote-ovi opet postaju neuporedivo korisniji od improvizovane magije, ali gde ce neko naci sav taj XP?

Meni rote-ovi predstavljaju samo jedan problem. Character Creation. Glava me boli kad pomislim da cu igracima morati da predstavim mali miloion rote-ova na samom pocetku. Joj zivote lutalico.
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Nesto kao Exalted char creation, samo na steroidima. U takvim situacijama je mnogo jednostavnije dati igracima dase sami snadju pre sastajanja. Mi smo za Exalted (ciji charm-ovi nisu toliko broni kao rote-ovi) dva session-a samo pravili likove. Necu ni da razmisljam kako bi bilo za Mage.

EDIT: a ne znam zasto ti je general outline za svaku tufnu gori od starog Mage-a? Tako nekako je i tamo bilo, cak mislim da su Magical Practices malo elaboratniji.
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Post by Awakened »

A pa ono, prethodno si imao za svaku tacku specijalno za svaku sferu recenicu-dve uopsteno sta mozes sa tim, plus primere toga, plus stare rote-ove koji su bili zamisljeni delom kao primeri, a delom kao "Ovoga se nikad nece setiti" (npr. Prime 2-3 Rubbing The Bones). Sad imas po jednu prostoprosirenu recenicu uopsteno za sve sfere, bez ikakvog dubljeg razmatranja, a primeri su rastrkani po rote-ovima. Mnogo vise citanja, mnogo vise materije koju treba usvojiti i predstaviti igracima. Plus ono, u opisu prve tacke kaze "osnovna kontrola - dovoljno da se upali ili ugasi". Life 1, yo!
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Hm. Nije da nije. No, pretpostavljam da posle iscitavanja Rote-ova (sto, priznajem, nikad nisam uradio) slika postaje znacajno jasnija. A to me podseti jos jednog razloga zasto fokusiranost na rote-ove umesto na freeform magiju (barem za slabe i srednje jake likove) predtavlja Good Thing(tm). Stari Mage je imao problem sto je iskusan igrac uvek bio jaci od novog igraca jednostavno zato sto je imao snaznije poimanje sta Sfere zaista mogu da rade. N puta mi se desilo da blenem u coveka koji prica o efektu sa WTF? izrazom lica, i potom provedem dvadeset minuta u preslisavanju dal' i kako je to zaista moguce izvesti.
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Post by Megabaja »

I sta? Sad kao moram i da se fokusiram na odabir magija - u starom mejdzu lepo uzmes eutanatosa, nagruvas mu fajerarms, dodas poneku tackicu na magiju kao suport - i... przis. Nije da ima ima veze sa samim konceptom igre, kome nismo uspeli ni da se priblizimo, ali su karakteri super za kiberpank.
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Post by Awakened »

Ma da, zamisli licimure, hoce od tebe da igras Maga u sistemu koji se zove Mage 8)
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Megabaja
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Post by Megabaja »

i to kikindski....
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Ignorance is bliss.
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Pazi, vidi, kockica ima 6 strana, a terminator gine samo na 1... by Chomie
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Blago vama, ja sam prilicno siguran da nikada necu igrati Mage-a :?
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Post by Awakened »

Ako je za utehu, necu ni ja, al' cu ipak malo da vodim. A i zaboravio sam kako se igra na kraju 8)
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Post by Megabaja »

tuzna violina svira.... " A zasto neces igrati Mage Greeteru?"
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Pazi, vidi, kockica ima 6 strana, a terminator gine samo na 1... by Chomie
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Pa za pocetak, ja sam dedicated ST u mojoj ekipi. Kako god da se postavi situacija, ja vodim. Sto i nije problem jer Vampire, Werewolf i Exalted zaista zelim da vodim pre nego da igram. Verovatno neki control freak sindrom jer me jako boli kada gledam sta neki drugi ST radi setting-u koji volim.

Ali Mage bih pre igrao nego vodio. No, nije da ce do toga ikada doci jer jer Mage u glavnom zadnja rupa na svirali u mojoj ekipi, tako da... eto. Woe is me.
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Post by Megabaja »

pa dobro.. evo, kada se vrati ova haska pticica mozemo da organizujemo neki mage - ja cu da vodim ( baj d buk, ne na "bolesno-izivljavanje-kiberpank-moji-mokri-snovi" nacin).
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

Pazi, vidi, kockica ima 6 strana, a terminator gine samo na 1... by Chomie
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Ja sam uvek voljan za takve radove, ak' bidnem pozvan :D
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Post by Awakened »

Dawngreeter wrote: No, nije da ce do toga ikada doci jer jer Mage u glavnom zadnja rupa na svirali u mojoj ekipi, tako da... eto. Woe is me.
*U pozadini, tamburasi pevaju "Pokraj mene vise nisi, camcem plovim sam po Tisi, al' jos te uvek volim ja...."
Megabaja wrote:pa dobro.. evo, kada se vrati ova haska pticica mozemo da organizujemo neki mage - ja cu da vodim ( baj d buk, ne na "bolesno-izivljavanje-kiberpank-moji-mokri-snovi" nacin).
Evo, i ja sam za. 8)
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Post by Megabaja »

eto. i posle neko kaze da na ovom forumu punom drkadzija niko nista ne moze da se dogovori... :)
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Pazi, vidi, kockica ima 6 strana, a terminator gine samo na 1... by Chomie
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Post by Dawngreeter »

Morace kvota drkadzisanja ipak nekako da se popuni. Gde ja Amanatar kad ti najvise treba...
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Post by Awakened »

Megabaja wrote:eto. i posle neko kaze da na ovom forumu punom drkadzija niko nista ne moze da se dogovori... :)
A sta pa hoce da se dogovaramo? Da zidamo kucu ili da krecimo sobu za klince? 8)
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Post by Kibernick »

Ima li neko da zna da neko vodi Mage. Nije da znamo nesto previse, ali ono, zaludjeno, pa...
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