Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Tabletop wargame baziran na tematici WW2

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žubor
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Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by žubor »

Ovo je pokusaj da se na jednom mestu nadju sve neophodne informacije za one koji zele da saznaju vise o Flames of War-u, ili jos bolje, da pocnu da se bave istim.

Ukoliko neke informacije fale, ili ih treba update-ovati, napiste porukicu ili pitanje u ovoj temi i na pitanje ce biti odgovoreno.

1. Sta je to Flames of War?


Flames of War je istorijski war game smesten u Evropu tokom Drugog svetskog rata. Flames of war se igra sa figurama u razmeri 1:100 (15mm figure) koje proizvod australijska firma Battlefront.



2. Gde mogu na nadjem dodatne informacije?

Sve osnovne (a bogami i dodatne) informacije mogu da se nadju na Flames of War website-u. Takodje na svako pitanje postavljeno na ovom delu foruma dobicete brz odgovor.

3. Sta mi je neophodno da bih poceo da se bavim Flames of War-om?

Prvo i osnovno neophodan je Rule Book a zatim i Army Book-ovi (Afrika, Ostfron, Festung Europa ...). Sve sto ti treba moze se naci preko emule-a (search "flames of war" ili "fow"), ili mozes poslati privatnu poruku i CD sa pravilima i armijskim knjigama ce ti biti presnimljen. Posle upoznavanja sa pravilima, sledeci korak je izbor armije i nabavka minijatura, njihovo sklapanje i farbanje.



4. Koji period je trenutno aktivan?

Flames of War je podeljen na 3 dela: EarlyWar, Mid War i Late War. Iako je u svetu trenutno najaktuelniji Late War-u, kod nas se za sada skupljaju armije za Mid War.


5. Gde mogu da kupim figurice?

Trenutno u Srbiji Flames of War figure prodaje Sigil, ulica Pop Lukina 6 odnosno Fantasy Games Serbia. Preko njih mozete i naruciti sve za Flames of War. Za sve dodatne informacije obratite se na email [email protected] ili telefon 011/328-3950.
Last edited by žubor on Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Skobra »

Ne znam da li ste vi ovo videli ali ja upravo otkrih. Ima par bitnih izmena pri cemu obratite paznju jer nisu sve izmene boldovane:

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Portals/0/ ... ctions.pdf

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Portals/0/ ... ctions.pdf
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Post by žubor »

Skobra wrote:Ne znam da li ste vi ovo videli ali ja upravo otkrih. Ima par bitnih izmena pri cemu obratite paznju jer nisu sve izmene boldovane:

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Portals/0/ ... ctions.pdf

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Portals/0/ ... ctions.pdf
Uz ova dva PDF-a koje je Skobra postovao evo jos jednog: More Lessons From The Front (Q&A)
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Flames of War - Army Builder

Post by žubor »

Pored, svima nam vec znanog Army Buildera, za Flames of War postoje i Army liste u Excel obliku. Sve liste se mogu naci na: Ovoj stranici

Ono sto je interesantno je da se na gore navedenom linku mogu naci i Army liste za malo egzoticnije armije (tipa, Rumuni, Finci itd.)
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Ispravke u pravilima

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Dole prilozeni tekst skinut je sa oficijalnog FoW sajta. Rec je o stamparskim greskama u samim pravilima ili o stvarima koje su nenamerno izostavljene.

Flames Of War Rulebook Reprint

When it came time to reprint the Flames of War rulebook, we took the opportunity to correct a few glitches in the first print run. Most of these changes are very small (like the first one—spelling the name of one of the playtest groups right!). The few more significant changes are just rewordings of rules to make their intent a little more clear.

The following list has all of the changes that we made. As you can see the list appears long, but that’s mainly the explanations, not the changes!

We hope that this will make the rules more robust and expect them to remain in their current form for at least the next two or three years.

Page 1: Change “Spiritz of War” to “Spritz of War”. We spelt the name of this playtest group wrong. For those who are interested, a spritz is ‘an aperitif consisting of wine, sparkling water, and liqueur’ much favoured amongst our Italian playtesters.

Page 21: Change “only text printed in italics is actually rules” to “only text printed in italics and in the accompanying tables are actually rules”. Yep, as we have said, the tables are actually part of the rules. It doesn’t make much sense otherwise.

Page 25: Independent Teams. Add “2iC,” in front of “Company and higher command teams” at the beginning. Nowhere does it say that 2iC teams are independent teams (opps!).

Page 43: Sending Transports to the Rear. Change “at the end of any Movement Step” to “at the end of your Movement Step”. This is a less confusing phrasing that shows the intent much more clearly.

Page 44: Change “at the start of their movement” to “at the start of the Movement Step” in Dismounting Cavalry. Once again, a small rephrasing that makes the intent much clearer.

Page 50: Change “Starting Step” to “Shooting Step” in the Command Leadership example. Mea culpa. You don’t take Platoon Morale Checks in the Starting Step!

Page 53: Change “then they simply don’t shoot” to “then you usually won’t shoot with them” in Splitting Your Platoon’s Fire. The new phrasing clarifies the intent of the rule which is that they don’t normally shoot simply because they have no effect, not that they are forbidden to shoot if for some reason the player wants them to.

Page 61: Change “Although it is possible to see into tall area terrain you cannot see through it, even if it is less than 6”/15cm deep. Troops behind tall area terrain cannot be seen by anyone on the other side.” to “Teams in area terrain that is shorter than either or both the teams trying to see and those they are trying to see can bee seen, but are Concealed. They can see other teams outside the area terrain as normal.” to Teams Inside Area Terrain. This removes the duplication with the Teams Behind Area Terrain section and clarifies the situation for teams sitting in shorter area terrain.

Page 64: Roll to Hit. Change “score to hit for each team” to “score to hit for each shooting team” in last sentence. Just to make it really clear which team we are talking about.

Page 67: Shooting at Mixed Platoons. Change “of the priority target type, although exactly which teams” to “of the priority target type before other types of targets. Exactly which teams”. By splitting the sentence the meaning of each part becomes more clear.

Page 69: Change “+1 if the range is over 16”/40cm to all teams in the shooting platoon” to “+1 if range to the target team is over 16”/40cm”. This change brings the rules in line with the only sensible way of playing them.

Page 73: Add “, except that a hit from a weapon with the Bunker Buster attribute must always be allocated to a team in a building before a team outside a building” to Unprotected Teams.
Change "The infantry in the open must be allocated hits before those in the building meaning the unprotected teams receive three hits, and one is allocated to the team in the building” to “The infantry in the open are hit before those in the building meaning the unprotected teams receive three hits, and one team in the building is also hit” in the example.
As the rules were written technically you could neutralise a bunker buster by putting a single team outside the building!

Page 76: Add hyphen to “dangerous” in Shooting at Bailed Out Teams.

Page 76: Change “If a Bailed Out or Bogged Down vehicle is forced to Bail Out again by enemy fire, take an immediate Motivation Test” to “If a Bailed Out or Bogged Down vehicle is forced to Bail Out again by enemy fire, do not place a second marker, instead take an immediate Motivation Test”. Once again, a few more words in the sentence make it much clearer.

Page 77: Bogged or Bailed Command Tank. Add “Instead it becomes part of the platoon the taken-over tank came from” at the end of the rule. At present the rule says nothing about what happens to the commander’s old tank!

Page 87: Turret-rear MG. Change heading to “Turret-rear MG” without the ‘R’ capitalised. Change “Any team assaulting a vehicle armed with a turret-rear MG” to “Any team assaulting a vehicle armed with a turret-rear MG that is not Bailed Out”. Bailed out vehicles aren’t going to gain much protection from a weapon that isn’t manned.
Change “doubling the effective firepower that can be levelled at a target” to “doubling the effective firepower of the mounting” in Twin MG. Minor wording change that makes the sentence more accurate, but changes nothing!

Page 92: Change “Snipers are always rated as” to “Snipers are Infantry teams and are always rated as”. Yep, we never said that snipers were infantry teams. Obvious, but we never said it!

Page 100: Change “they only benefit from Concealment and Bulletproof Cover they occupy at that point” to “they only benefit from Concealment they occupy at that point, but are never in Bulletproof Cover” in Concealment and Bulletproof Cover. When we looked more closely, we couldn’t think of any situation where they could possibly be in bulletproof cover.

Page 100: Tanks Contacted By Infantry. Change “did not move in the Movement Step” to “did not move in the Movement or Shooting Steps”. This stops Italians and others from Avanti moving out of cover to assault tanks. We never thought of this when we wrote the rules and it really doesn’t make much sense, although the rule used to allow it.

Page 104: Change “All Infantry teams have an Anti-tank rating of 2” to “All Infantry and Gun teams have an Anti-tank rating of 2” in Infantry Anti-tank Ratings. Also change the heading to “Infantry and Gun Anti-tank Ratings”. Another oversight in the original version never said anything about the anti-tank rating of gun teams.

Page 108: Change “ignoring the effect of being Pinned Down until the assault is over” to “ignoring the effect of being Pinned Down while Counterattacking”. The greater precision of the new wording eliminates some odd readings of the rule.

Page 112: Change “take a Motivation Test to Counterattack as if they had taken a hit in the assault combat.” to “take a Motivation Test to Counterattack and will be Pinned Down at the end of the Assault Step as if they had taken a hit in the assault combat”. This makes it clear that all of the effects of taking a hit apply to them.

Page 112: Change “wins the assault and can choose whether to Consolidate or launch a Breakthrough Assault” to “wins the assault and can Consolidate”. After looking more closely, we discovered the obvious—there can never be a breakthrough assault in these circumstances.

Page 127: Change “Observer teams can spot while Pinned Down” to “Observer and Spotting teams can spot while Pinned Down” in Observing While Pinned Down. This just makes it really clear that it doesn’t matter who is spotting, being pinned down doesn’t affect them.

Page 130: Change “with lower Armour ratings before those with higher Armour ratings” to “with lower Top armour ratings before those with higher Top armour ratings”. Most people figured out that if you were taking the save on the top armour rating, then that must be what the rule was referring to.

Page 136: Artillery Summary. Delete “Re-roll failed attempts to Range in on a team moving At the Double”. This was a leftover from the development process that didn’t get removed from the summary.

Page 139: How many Aircraft. Change “When a flight of ground attack” to “When a flight of ground-attack”. That missing hyphen really matters!

Page 148: Air Support Summary. Delete “Re-roll failed attempts to Range in on a team moving At the Double”. Another leftover (good for lunch the next day, bad for rules).

Page 149: Add “although it can spot for artillery bombardments” to the end of Eyes and Ears. Another clarification that makes sense.

Page 153: Reorganisation. Add “spot for artillery bombardments” to the list of things that cannot be done while reorganising. Likewise, another clarification that makes sense.

Page 154: Add “Teams spotting for an Artillery Bombardment must choose a team that they could see to shoot at as their Aiming Point. Teams firing an Artillery Bombardment do not have their range restricted by the Night Fighting rules.”. Most people probably figured out that it was the spotter that was affected by darkness, not the artillery pieces.
Change “With nothing but their eyes to guide them, there is no way for aircraft to accurately identify targets on the battlefield to attack” to “With nothing but their eyes to guide them, there is no way for aircraft to accurately identify targets to attack” in No Air Support. This was just to make room for the previous change.

Page 157: Seek, Strike, and Destroy. Change “If no Carbine teams from the platoon are left on the table, any remaining tank destroyers abandon the field, and the whole platoon counts as Destroyed.” to “If no Carbine teams from the platoon are left on the table and the tank destroyers are not yet deployed, they abandon the field and the whole platoon counts as Destroyed”. This rule was only meant to affect tank destroyers that hadn’t turned up yet.

Page 157: Tank Destroyer Doctrine. Change “Self-propelled Anti-tank Platoons” to Self-propelled and Tank Destroyer Platoons” in the last line. The wording of this rule should be consistent with the one above.

Page 161: Change “that has passenger-mounted machine-guns” to “has more than one machine-gun mounted” in Fields of Fire. While in most cases the rule worked as written, the US M3A1 armoured car has multiple machine-guns, but the .50 cal is not passenger-fired.

Page 166: Kampfgruppe. Change “up to half of the Sections or Squads from any Combat or Weapons platoons” to “up to half of the Sections or Squads (excluding the HQ Section) from any Combat or Weapons platoons”. This is an important clarification that has been made on the web. Too many other rules can be broken otherwise.

Page 166: Stormtroopers. Add “as a Movement Step in which it” after “the platoon treats the Assault Step”. Somehow half of the sentence was lost in the original printing.

Page 167: Mounted Assault. Delete the paragraph that begins “Teams that dismounted”. This situation cannot happen in the rules, so there is no point in discussing it.

Page 167: Mounted Assault. Change “a passenger in each Transport team may fight” to “a passenger in each Transport team that is not Bailed Out may fight”. Nothing surprising in this change. A bailed out half-track isn’t going to fight.

Page 174: Change “The 2 pdr and 6 pdr guns” to “The 2 pdr guns” in Tally Ho! fluff text. There are no 6 pdr-armed tanks that have the Tally Ho! rule.

Page 182: Change “A Soviet Company currently having at least fifteen” to “A Soviet Company starting the Step with at least fifteen” in Quality of Quantity. This wording change makes the things a lot clearer.

Page 182: Change “nine or more guns” to “nine or more weapons” in Big Battalions. Nine mortars are also a big battalion, so weapons is a bit more appropriate.
Change “total number of guns firing” to “total number of weapons firing” in Mixed Battalions. If you are being picky, a howitzer is not a gun, so once again weapons is a better choice of word.

Page 183: Add to the text beneath the heading “No matter which method you choose, the key thing to remember is that the Intelligence Briefings in our handbooks is that the diagrams show the organisation of each of your platoons, and this in turn tells you how to base your miniatures (if the picture says four figures, then four figures go on a base). For more information see Boot Camp on our website: http://www.FlamesOfWar.com.”. Something we just never said, but is really helpful for beginners.

Page 197: Immediate Ambush. Add the words “using the normal Ambush rules” at the end. It is not clear that this is a subtitle of the normal Ambush rules. Now this is one to note as it does differ from previous answers on the matter. Immediate Ambushes must use the Ambush rules to determine eligible locations.

Page 201: Change “At the start of turns six and seven” to “At the start of their turns six and seven” in Phased Objective Withdrawal. The timing was unclear in the first version.

Pages 202 and 203: Change “The player finishing their deployment first” to “The player finishing deploying their platoons first”. Just to make it clear that we are talking about deploying platoons, and not independent teams and HQ support weapons here.

Page 211: Shooting at Bunkers. Add “, which remains Pinned Down until it Rallies in its Starting Step” at the end of the Pinned Down result. Otherwise there really isn’t any point in shooting at bunkers!

Page 212: Fully-tracked Vehicles. Add “Fully-tracked vehicles still do not need to take a Bogging Check, however”. Running over a barbed wire obstacle doesn’t make it more difficult to cross!

Page 213: Change “must stop moving immediately they cross the minefield” to “must stop moving immediately after they cross the minefield”. Add “Even if the team ends up still on or partly on the minefield, it still counts as across the minefield” in Moving Through a Minefield.
Change “Teams may not attempt to cross a minefield while moving At the Double” to “Teams may not attempt to cross a minefield At the Double” in Motivation test to Cross Minefields.
Change “Mines are a new hazard for soldiers in the Second World War. Springing up around every defensive position and littering the battlefield wherever trench warfare sets in, minefields make no-man’s land a real devil’s garden” to “Minefields make no-man’s land a real devil’s garden, springing up around every defensive position and littering the battlefield wherever trench warfare sets in” at top of page.
Just a few wording changes to clear up a few questions that pop up from time to time.

Page 218: Limited Fortifications. Change “use the table below to determine” to “use the table below instead of that shown on page 217 to determine”. Yep, it replaces the previous table. Not sure what else it could be for though?

Page 219: Trench Fight. Move the text from “Remember, Pioneer teams” in step5 to the end of step 6. The arrow in No Man’s Land should go down to the centre line. Shoot the author and the proof reader!

Page 225: Across the Volga. Hyphenate “calculating” correctly. Shoot the proof reader again and string up the graphics boys!

Page 241: Common Terrain Making Materials. Change “3mm to 6mm MDF” to “1/8-1/4”/3-6mm MDF”. Strangely, some of the world still uses archaic measurement systems.

Page 245: Eastern Europe Terrain Chart. Change “2+” to “2” in General Winter. It was going to be a long winter the way it was!

Page 252: Change “All teams move 4”/10cm away from enemy. Any within 4”/10cm of assaulting teams are Destroyed” to “All teams move at least 4”/10cm away from enemy. Any remaining within 4”/10cm are Destroyed” in Break Off. This should make the quick reference sheet reflect the rules a bit better.

Page 253: Change “Concealed by woods” to “Concealed” in Artillery Roll to Range In on Target. A copy and paste error. Shoot the author again!

Page 254: Change “62” to “62, 73, 211” in the index entry for Bunker Busters. This should help people find the rest of the rules for them.

Page 255: Add “X-Ray” after William and before Yoke and Zebra. Even though nothing ever starts with X.

Last Updated On Thursday, November 01, 2007 by Wayne at Battlefront
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by žubor »

jedan od korisnijih linkova: Master Index!!!
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by meloras »

Sta se desava sa combat atachmentima iz weapon platoona?Konkretno razmisljam da uzmem hmg platoon (2x2 hmg tima+po 1 bazooka za svaku sekciju) i da sekcije atachujem u rifle platoone,da bi svaki imao po 3 bazooke,hmg i brdo postolja rifle timova.Ako atachovanjem nestane kupljeni vod sa liste da li se isti onda broji u ukupan broj vodova koji imam (recimo,imam 8 vodova,pa onda pre deploymenta mg platoon dodam u combat platoone).Da li se u navedenom primeru racuna kao da sam imao pocetnih 7 platoona?Nejasno mi je jer sam u knjizi procitao da dodati timovi neulaze u broj oroginalnih timova za platoon moral.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by žubor »

melekith wrote:Sta se desava sa combat atachmentima iz weapon platoona?Konkretno razmisljam da uzmem hmg platoon (2x2 hmg tima+po 1 bazooka za svaku sekciju) i da sekcije atachujem u rifle platoone,da bi svaki imao po 3 bazooke,hmg i brdo postolja rifle timova.Ako atachovanjem nestane kupljeni vod sa liste da li se isti onda broji u ukupan broj vodova koji imam (recimo,imam 8 vodova,pa onda pre deploymenta mg platoon dodam u combat platoone).Da li se u navedenom primeru racuna kao da sam imao pocetnih 7 platoona?Nejasno mi je jer sam u knjizi procitao da dodati timovi neulaze u broj oroginalnih timova za platoon moral.
ukoliko si imao 8 platoona a jedan si "rasturio" jer si ga combat attachovao ... onda za deployment imas 7 platoona ...
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Pride, kada atacujes ceo platoon koji to moze njegovo komandno postolje nestaje.
Ali zato mozes da atacujes samo jednu sekciju 2XHMG i ili Bazuku i to ne pod obavezno istom vodu. Ostatak, komanda i 2xHMG su ti i dalje jedan platoon.
Ili atacujes 2x2HMG a ostavis bazuku i jos im dodas dve Bazuke iz Company HQ pa imas vod sa komandom i tri bazuke za rokanje tenkova.

Bunarenje. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 8)
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

opsidiannight wrote:Pride, kada atacujes ceo platoon koji to moze njegovo komandno postolje nestaje.
Ali zato mozes da atacujes samo jednu sekciju 2XHMG i ili Bazuku i to ne pod obavezno istom vodu. Ostatak, komanda i 2xHMG su ti i dalje jedan platoon.
Ili atacujes 2x2HMG a ostavis bazuku i jos im dodas dve Bazuke iz Company HQ pa imas vod sa komandom i tri bazuke za rokanje tenkova.

Bunarenje. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 8)
ne možeš zato što kada pridodaješ CA pridodaješ celu sekciju a bazuke su zajedno sa HMG u sekciji. takođe bazuke iz HQ se pridodaju sekciji te ne možeš da ostaviš PC sa bazukama kao zaseban vod.
Takođe ako pridodaješ samo 1 sekciju ne možeš da deliš HMG na dva voda već celu sekciju priododaš jednom vodu pešadije.
u prevodu ništa od bunarenja.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Da toga sam se i setio, pridodaju se sekcije. Pih.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by žubor »

US Tank Hunters:

Nesto sam poceo da razmisljao kao Slovic (ono bunarenje, bunarenje i samo bunarenje) te mi pade nesto na pamet ...

US Self Propelled Anti-tank platoon sa 2 sekcija ima HQ (carabine team) + 2 Carabine Teama + 4 M10 (recimo)

M10 ostaju van table.

Na tablu se postavljaju HQ + 2 carabine team-a.

Jedan karabine team ostaje u nekoj sumici na levoj strani table.

Drugi karabine team i HQ hitaju (move on double a jos su u jeepovima) na drugi kraj table ... i to urade i u sledecem krugu ...

U sledecem krugu 2 M10 mogu doci na levi flank, a 2 M10 na desni flank. U svakom slucaju neprijatelj se znoji jer je area iz koje mogu doci ove 4 lepotice velika :-)

To je sve OK? Ovako cak ima smisla uzeti 2 sekcije M10 ...

B.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Doima se potpuno legalno. Dobre ti raslje.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

Meni se cini da je sve validno... ali mislim da ti ovo i nije neka taktika. Par razloga:
1. Pretrcavanje na drugo krilo HQ i Carabine tima ce definitivno privuci paznju pogotovo ako se krecu on the double
2. Ako te u tom 2 turn sprintu neko potkaci velike su sanse da izgubis i Platun HQ i car tim a pogotovo dzipove i eto te ispod pola platuna a ako zviznes moral M10 nece ni doci na tablu
3. Cak i da izgubis "samo" HQ najebo si jerbo jer si nepokretan sve dok CiC nekog ne imenuje za Platun HQ
4. Ako si bas sreca pa izgubis carabin tim (koji je sa Platun HQ) opet zajeb jer em ne mozes da se pomeras (nemas =>50% jedinica sa HQ) em ce M10 moci da se pojave samo kod onog "zaostalog" carabine tima...

Opet i da sve to prodje bez problema cini mi se (a neko ce vec proveriti) da je opet zajeb jer
1. Grupa sa Platun Hq ne moze da se pomera ako nema =>50% jedinica
2. Zaostala grupa ako se i pomera mora da ide ka Hq grupi

Mislim da ne ovo nije neka grom-sprz taktika, naravno moze da napravi haos u odredjenim trenucima ali skrenuo bih ti paznju (kao i svim drugim US igracima) na uzasno dobru Tank Destroyer Doctrine (Rulebook p157) koju je Slovic (kao jednini US igrac do sada) u svom tom nirvabunarisanju uporno zanemarivao i zbog cega su njegove M10 bile pravi "stakleni" cekic
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by žubor »

Skobra wrote: 4. Ako si bas sreca pa izgubis carabin tim (koji je sa Platun HQ) opet zajeb jer em ne mozes da se pomeras (nemas =>50% jedinica sa HQ) em ce M10 moci da se pojave samo kod onog "zaostalog" carabine tima...

Opet i da sve to prodje bez problema cini mi se (a neko ce vec proveriti) da je opet zajeb jer
1. Grupa sa Platun Hq ne moze da se pomera ako nema =>50% jedinica
2. Zaostala grupa ako se i pomera mora da ide ka Hq grupi

Mislim da ne ovo nije neka grom-sprz taktika, naravno moze da napravi haos u odredjenim trenucima ali skrenuo bih ti paznju (kao i svim drugim US igracima) na uzasno dobru Tank Destroyer Doctrine (Rulebook p157) koju je Slovic (kao jednini US igrac do sada) u svom tom nirvabunarisanju uporno zanemarivao i zbog cega su njegove M10 bile pravi "stakleni" cekic
Mislim da pod 4. gresis. HQ je HQ Carabine Team ... a pise da M10 moze da se pojavi na 6" od bilo kog Carabine Team-a ... tako da ako rikne Carabine Team ... pojavice se pored HQ-a ...

Najveca prednost po meni je sto mogu da se pojavim na 2 strane ... a protivnik nema pojma sa koje strane cu doci ... zajeb jeste da ukoliko se pojavim na strani gde nije HQ ... manevri su vise nego ograniceni ...

no boze zdravlje ... probacemo sve na terenu :D
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

Mislim da pod 4. gresis. HQ je HQ Carabine Team ... a pise da M10 moze da se pojavi na 6" od bilo kog Carabine Team-a ... tako da ako rikne Carabine Team ... pojavice se pored HQ-a ...
verovatno si u pravu ali opet je to problem jerbo ces (u slucaju da ostane samo HQ ziv) da tu "stvoris" 3 od 4 M10... a platun komandir uz 3 tenk tima nece preziveti dugo... Ono priority fire + problem sto CiC nema koga da apointuje kao novog komandira... Jeste lepa prednost da mozes da se pojavis na 2 tacke ali mislim da sa HQ i 2 tima mozes da pokrijes puno prostora, odnosno 3x6" + 16" od svake tacke na toj liniji... to je vise nego dovoljno...

p.s. i dalje mislim da je onaj disengage after shooting-a majka mara za tenk destroyere
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Kako nema koga, pa moze M10 da postane HQ jedinica.
Potpuno legalno, posto nije transport tim. :twisted:
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by meloras »

Koliko je validno drzati vod hmg u ambushu,i kad dodje vreme postaviti ga u recimo neku zgradu?Da li je ta zgrada concieling teren pa mogu da sacekaju da neko pridje pa da se pojave ili nije concieling pa moraju da se pojave kad je krvnik na 16,001"?
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

melekith wrote:Koliko je validno drzati vod hmg u ambushu,i kad dodje vreme postaviti ga u recimo neku zgradu?Da li je ta zgrada concieling teren pa mogu da sacekaju da neko pridje pa da se pojave ili nije concieling pa moraju da se pojave kad je krvnik na 16,001"?
Zgrada je concealing teren.
ipso facto možeš da postavljaš ambush HMG u zgradu na manje od 16" od neprijatelja
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Wording
Concealing teren - je sve sto ti daje Cocealment od dusmana, Iza zgrade, zivice, bunara, je concealing teren. Ne mora da bude area teren.
Ko se buni nek procita pravila.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

Gresis u objasnjenju...
Ako kaze "Concealing teren" onda je to parce terena koji sam po sebi daje concealment (suma, siprazje iliti unutrasnjost kuce)
Ovo tvoje iza zivice, bunara, kuce bi pre bilo "out of sight" mada mislim da zivica ne bi upala u tu kategoriju
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Ne gresim Skobra, ako ti teren daje cocealment od protivnika na bilo koji nacin, bilo da si u njemu ili delimicno iza njega ti si conceald i ispunjavas uslove za postavljanje.
Ima dosta primera koji potvrdjuju moju tvrdnju na samom forumu BF-a a i u dijagramima u knjizi pravila.
Kad kazem iza mislim na ''delimicno sakriven'', posto je jasno definisano u doktrini kako se postavlja ukoliko te protivnik ne vidi uopste a to je isto kao i ako si conceald..
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

U pravilima lepo pise
- More then 4" from all enemy teams and either in concealing terrain or out of line of sight of the enemy

Znaci mozes da se stavis na recimo 5" u sumi ili kuci (concealing terrain), odnosno kompletno iza kuce ili terena ukoliko je teren vislji od jedinice (out of line of sight).

Ne mozes da stavis jedinicu na 5" iza zivice buduci da niti si u concealing terrain-u niti si out of line of sight. A tek ova prica oko "delimicno skriven" je budalastina
opsidiannight wrote:Concealing teren - je sve sto ti daje Cocealment od dusmana, Iza zgrade, zivice, bunara, je concealing teren
Ovo je ok ali opet nije relevantno za ambush jerbo se lepo trazi da si IN concealing terrain ili OUT of sight.

I daj nemoj da zapetljavamo pricu vise
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Nema sta da zapetljavamo, ja znam da sam u pravu po pitanju ovog pravila. :D
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

opsidiannight wrote:Nema sta da zapetljavamo, ja znam da sam u pravu po pitanju ovog pravila. :D
Ovo je ok ali opet nije relevantno
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Da bih to i potvrdio, molim te procitaj desni stubac na str. 157 u knizi pravila, odeljak za tank destrojere.

''The tank destroyers in a Self-propelld Anty-tank or Tank Destroyer Platoon may eather be deployed as normal at the start of the game, or held off-table with only the Carabine teams and their transports being deployed. If the tank destroyers are held off-table, you may plase all of the tank destroyers on the table at the start of your turn so that they are:
-Concealed and no more than 16''/40''cm away from all enemy teams or are entierly out of Line of Sight of enemy, and
-...
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Skobra »

melekith wrote:Koliko je validno drzati vod hmg u ambushu?
opsidiannight wrote:''The tank destroyers in a Self-propelld Anty-tank or Tank Destroyer Platoon may eather be deployed as normal at the start of the game, or held off-table with only the Carabine teams and their transports being deployed. If the tank destroyers are held off-table, you may plase all of the tank destroyers on the table at the start of your turn so that they are:
-Concealed and no more than 16''/40''cm away from all enemy teams or are entierly out of Line of Sight of enemy, and
-...
WTF?
p.s. imas jedno no viska
p.p.s. Molim te, molim te, molim te, molim te, molim te, molim te, molim te, molim te potvrdi da si pjan ili disleksicar a ne idi(j)ot
opsidiannight wrote:Nema svrhe da ga osudujemo sto prodaje figure jebo je u stisci.

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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Skobra nit sam jampi nit disleksiju milovao.
Nit tvrdio da u teren mora.
Vec i da iza njega mere.
Tu se more otvorilo.

:D :D :D
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Izvini Skobra mislio sam da je rasprava oko postavljanja US tenk distrojera.

Svejedno, wording za postavljanje scenarijskog ambuša je i dalje kao što sam rekao.
Postoji u knjizi praviolo o linearnom terenu u kome ne možeš biti, živice, zidovi i slično, već samo sa jedne ili druge strane a ako si uz njega racunas se da si u terenu iako to fizicki nije moguce. Taj teren, (kao i ivice zgrade, kreste brda i sl. po normalnom ne cepidlackom tumacenju i uz koriscenje zdravog razuma) ti daje concealment i time ispunjavaš uslov za postavljanje u od 4'' do 16'' od neprijatelja.
Znam da je u knizi naglašeno ''in concealing teren'' i da to dovodi do zabune pri interpretaciji pravila. Nismo prvi koji imaju ovu raspravu.

Par linkova ka BF forumu gde su raspravili ovo pravilo.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx ... tid=435239
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx ... tid=416355

Ima gomila postova na ovu temu.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by meloras »

Sta je sa americkim Lee tenkom?Ima dva topa gde je jedan rof 2 a drugi rof 3,oba imaju stabilizatore plus mitraljezi.U knjizi lepo pise da ako jedan top puca svi ostali imaju rof 1,ali da li to znaci da onda nemogu da koriste stabilizatore?Mozda bi zaista bilo previse kretati se pa pucati 2 puta snagom 10,3 puta snagom 7 i 2 hica od mitraljeza.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

melekith wrote:Sta je sa americkim Lee tenkom?Ima dva topa gde je jedan rof 2 a drugi rof 3,oba imaju stabilizatore plus mitraljezi.U knjizi lepo pise da ako jedan top puca svi ostali imaju rof 1,ali da li to znaci da onda nemogu da koriste stabilizatore?Mozda bi zaista bilo previse kretati se pa pucati 2 puta snagom 10,3 puta snagom 7 i 2 hica od mitraljeza.
ne
kada tenk ima dva topa pre pucanja biraš koji je prioritetan i on puca pun ROF dok onaj drugi puca samo 1 kao i mitraljezi bez obzira na stabilizatore
stabilizator samo daje i jednom i drugom mogućnost da pucaju pun ROF čak i kada se pomeraju
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Uh, uh, cekaj ovo mi zvuci malo pogresno, pa samo da razjasnim (sam sebi):

Imas top sa ROF 2, FP recimo 3+
Imas 1. machine gun (FP 6+)
Imas 2. machine gun (rasprave radi neka bude da mu je FP 5)

Situacija 1:
Pucas sa main gunom = 2+1+1 pucanja sa FP 3

Situacija 2:
Pucas sa 1. machine gunom = 3+1+1 pucanja FP 6

Situacija 3:
Pucas sa 2. machine gunom = 3+1+1 pucanja FP 5+

Da li je ovo tacno? Ili se, uvek bacaju posebno kockice za machine gun, posebno za main gun, itd., zbog toga sto imaju razlicit FP?
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

evo da pojasnim.

Šerman sa topom i dva mitraljeza
Kada stoji i puca topom puca na sledeći način:
2 hica topom i po jedan za svaki MG
stoji i puca mitraljezima prvi MG tri puta, drugi MG 1 put.
Kada se kreće:
jednom topom i po jedan za svaki MG ili jedan MG tri puta drugi MG jednom
Čim se puca topom to automatski podrazumeva da svaki dodatni MG može da puca samo 1 bez obzira da li se tenk kretao ili stajao.
u slučaju da je reč o US Šermanu on i kada se kreće puca 2 puta ali ima +1 na kocku. za mitralljeze ostaje isto

Grant/Lee funkcioniše po istom principu samo što ima 2 topa.
to u praksi znači dapre pucanja igrač bira koji od dva topa je prioritetan on puca pun ROF a sva ostala oruđa pucaju sa jednom kockom čak iako se tenk nije kretao.
ako se tenk kretao onda prioritetni top puca ROF1 a onaj drugi ROF1 sa +1 na kocku
Last edited by Duc d' Elchingen on Mon May 04, 2009 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Svako oruzje puca svojim FP ili se gleda najveci FP, pa rollas sve hitove zajedno?
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Dzon Vejn wrote:Svako oruzje puca svojim FP ili se gleda najveci FP, pa rollas sve hitove zajedno?
svako puca svojim karakteristikama
za svaki top posebno rolaš i za mitraljeze posebno
ukoliko se mitraljezi razlikuju (0,5.cal AAMG) i za njih se posebno baca
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

U prevodu US Lee stoji i puca. Prioritetni top mu je 75mm. Baca sledeće:

2 kocke za 75mm top
1 kocku za 37mm top
1 kocka za MG

iako Lee ima i Cupola MG njega ne može da koristi ako puca sa 37mm topom
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by meloras »

Dobro tako pise i u knjizi,i to nije sporno.Medjutim zasto onda njegova dva topa imaju oba po stabilizator?Da bi taj jedan prioritetni mogao da puca pun rof kad se krece ili nesto nije kako treba?

I jos jedno pitanje kad vec kucam.
Upravo stavljam travu na postolja,pa me zanima da li ce biti problema kad budem lakirao.Nameravam da lakiram lakom u spreju (akrilni,providni,happy color),ne danas vec sutra recimo da bi se lepak lepo uhvatio sa travom i osusio.E,sad,moje pitanje je da li ce se po lakiranju trava nekako prekriti ili slepiti uz postolje jos vise nego sa drvofixom,jer u zivotu nikad nisam prskao lak preko staticke trave.Znam da je glupo pitanje,ali pitam jer ima samo par dana do turnira pa da nezajebem nesto.Ako je neko radio to,molio bih da napise,jer nisam zagledao figure u klubu.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by opsidiannight »

Lak u spreju nece slepiti travu, samo ne preteruj sa lakom, dobro promuckaj i bar 25-30 cm od postolja.

Srecno.
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

melekith wrote:Dobro tako pise i u knjizi,i to nije sporno.Medjutim zasto onda njegova dva topa imaju oba po stabilizator?Da bi taj jedan prioritetni mogao da puca pun rof kad se krece ili nesto nije kako treba?
Upravo tako.
Namerno piše da oba imaju stabilizatore da ne bi bilo zabune koji ima a koji nema.
Ipso facto bilo koji top kada se proglasi za prioritetni može da puca pun ROF kada se tenk kreće
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Re: Flames of War - Kutak za pocetnike ...

Post by Dzon Vejn »

@Duc: uh kako sam ja to samo igrao pogresno :oops:

@malekith: sto se trave tice, barem sa GW mat lakom, nema problema. Ja sam stavio akrilni git, travu i lisajeve, i nikakvih problema nisam imao posle lakiranja.
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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