Warmachine:CoI

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takasunmc
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Warmachine:CoI

Post by takasunmc »

A pitao sam se kad ce nesto ovako da izbace.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/priva ... mish-game/
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Shunka
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Shunka »

Pa ako je GW izbacio prvo Kill Team a onda Shadow War Armageddon, zašto PP ne bi skočio na bandwagon? Mada čuj, će se pazari i to, mada mi Warmachina i alternate aktivacija modela ne idu baš jedno uz drugo...
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Dzon Vejn
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Guildball?
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
bjelajac
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by bjelajac »

Nonsense.

Imali su Skirmish igru, zvala se Warmachine, takođe poznatu danas kao MkI. Otprilike negde dok je nisu pretvorili u solomachine i infantrymachine pred kraj prve i u cheap stuff spamming u MkII.

Citiraću Vejna: Guildball
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Knight
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Knight »

PP trenutno ide stopama GWa iz 2013-2014e..drugim recima od mene eurocenta nece videti dok se stvari drasticno ne poprave :P
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Dzon Vejn
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Knight wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:11 pm PP trenutno ide stopama GWa iz 2013-2014e..drugim recima od mene eurocenta nece videti dok se stvari drasticno ne poprave :P
E a sta je problem sa PP trenutno, izgleda da sam ja jedino siroce koje ne shvata koji je problem? Nisam bas puno pratio desavanja u poslednjih godinu dana, tako da kontam da ima nesto sto sam propustio, ali koliko sam video pravila za MK3 (kupio orboros dek na ipadu i gledao malo reviews nove edicije na youtube), meni je ono delovalo kao manje-vise ista igra. OK neki uniti su de/buffovani, nesto sitno izmenjeno (focus/fury), ali to je to. Sta je zapravo problem?
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
bjelajac
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by bjelajac »

Nisam pokušao da ulazim u raspravu da li WMH valja ili ne, no nekada je zaista bio skirmish, a danas je dosta veća. Ko se seća standardnih partija iz Mk1, tada je sam kaster koštao oko 20% liste, plus još 3-4 stvari, 15ak modela po armiji.

Ne pomaže ni što su im cene skoro duple u odnosu na GW-ove. Novi trolovski gargantuan 140e?!? Pre par godina je mogla da se nabavi ciljano cela vojska za slične pare.
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Dzon Vejn
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Ne, OK, to je potpuno tacno, cene su kriminal. I to ce svakako morati da regulisu bundle-ovima cim im optuste genija koji je napravio trenutno stanje (npr. kao sto je GW uradio :) ).

Ali me zanima sta je problem u samim pravilima? Igrao sam i ja po MK1 i sama mehanika je i tada bila manje-vise ista.
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Knight
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Knight »

PP je sa markom 3 odradio jednu od onih GW akcija iz proslosti "ako hoces da se igras kompetitivno kupi nove cike", ali to nije kraj: Da bi zaustavili eroziju igraca, uveli su dinamicke izmene pravila, tj. "Community integrated development" - ako dovoljan broj igraca prijavi isti problem, pravila problematicnog modela se menjaju.

Drugim recima, zaista uvazavaju kukanje ako je dovoljno glasno. Modeli se ne balansiraju kao takvi, vec im je ideja da svaka frakcija moze da ima 2-3 kombinacije kastera za turnir...tako da ja trenutno farbam terminatore za osmu ediciju i cekam da PP otpusti trenutnog maga marketinga, pa cu videti sta i kako dalje :)
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Shunka
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Shunka »

"Kupi nove čike" je uvek bilo pravilo a ne izuzetak... Ja na kraju dana volim da kupujem nove čike i da se igram sa njima, i dosta je razočaravajuće kada su nove čike lame u igri... Tako da je to balans koji je nemoguće uvek držati na nivou, kako da novi modeli donose nešto novo a da ne učine stare modele jednoznačno lošijom opcijom, i PP se tu zaista dosta dobro držao tokom godina i zaista su planirali nova izdanja po par godina unapred.

E sad MK III je uradio jednu veliku stvar a to je da su warjackovi najzad dobili mesto u igri koje im je pripadalo od samoga početka u zamisli i u fluff-u, ali nije bilo dobro sprovedeno u pravilima. Loša strana je što je MK III očigledno bio loše playtestiran i što im je trebalo dosta vremena da ispeglaju sve bahate disbalanse u igri.

Problemi koje ja imam sa WM trenutno - a) tematske liste koje su baš jake i koje jako ograničavaju modele koji ljudi koriste, i b) često updateovanje pravila, zato što sam casual igrač koji voli da kupi svoje kartice, igra onako kako na karticama piše i ne razmišlja o erati od pre šest meseci a kamo li češće...
To što svaka fakcija ima 2-3 turnirske kombinacije, a ostatak kastera jednostavno nije na tom nivou, zaista mi nije neki problem, nas je ovde dovoljno malo da ionako svako igra šta hoće. To što se pravila menjaju onako kako ljudi kukaju, takođe mi nije problem.
Problem je što imamo malo igrača, i zato sam počeo da skupljam 40k u nadi da ću se igrati sa više ljudi. Ali moram priznati nisam se nešto usrećio sa ovim skirmish varijantama pošto dolazim u klub pun ljudi koji svi imaju figure ali ih mrzi da se igraju.
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Pendargon
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Pendargon »

Warmachine je super sad, bar meni. MK3 se ispeglao kompetitivno poprilicno, i nikad vise listi nije igrivo i aktuelno. Warmachina je malo ispred hordi, ali nije ni to nije presudno, kao sto se videlo na nasem prvom kvolifajeru koji je skorna glatko pobedila O:-).
Jeste, trebaju ti nove cike da bi igrao superkompetitivno (ali tako je u SVIM igrama ikad prilikom promena edicije, alo bre, svi smo dovoljno matori), ali da, jebiga, to je hobi. Ili jednostavno imas SVEEEE, i bas te briga.
I dalje je takticki i tehnicki duboka igra, u kojoj naravno imas i lose matchupe. Kao i svuda.
Sad, warmachine je bio skirmis igra samo u zoru MK1, nemojte da mi kukate. Vec pred kraj MK1 to vise nije bio skirmish, na 750 poena imao si sta si hteo, a to je bio turnirski standard. Ceo Mk2 nije bio skirmish, a mk3 je blize skirmishu nego ikad, jer imas manje mdoela zbog proliferacije jackova i beastova.
Ljudi ce uvek naci nesto da kukaju.
Ako hocete skirmish, guild ball je nesto najbolje sto se igralo sa 6 figura ikada, i to dolazi iz usta coveka koji je mislim probao skoro sve non-historical igre sa figurama koje su izasle kod nas (osim dalibora).
Warmachine je tabletop wargame, bre.
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Dzon Vejn
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Nisam jos igrao po MK3, ali moji utisci su bili da:
- je sve manje-vise isto,
- su uterali, duboko, ljudima koji su imali tier liste i nista van njih,
- su nove cene sve bahatije i bahatije,
- deluje mi da su jackovi sada dosta korisniji,
- mehanika nije bitno promenjena (od mk1 na ovamo).

Zavrsavam uskoro sa specijalistickim, tako da cu se igrati opet :).
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
Rick
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Rick »

I'll add my 2 cents. Shunka pretty much nailed it - PP lost their 'Godfather' last year and the others were not up to it. MK3 was full of good intentions but poorly play-tested and very badly released. And as Dule said. the game does feel better than ever before with Jacks and Beasts able to compete and in some ways dominate but this in itself has slightly imbalanced Hordes and Warmachine. Good things have happened since Will Pagani joined.

The good things are that they have made some great improvements. The recent changes to Jeremiah Kraye turned him from zero to hero without being a bogeyman and battle engines have become real options without being auto-includes. This is something to really look forward to HOWEVER this leads to the bad. Mainly that they tried to fix certain problems with tier lists which also will be altered and reviewed. I started to hate playing Cygnar as every list was either Heavy Metal or Storm Division and my lists wrote themselves. I am not touching Everblight as everything points towards playing Oracles and I think that the faction needs significant changes to move away from a one tier list wonder. It also looks like they are continuing their trend of using SR to balance things which, as a patch, has been just OK in the past and never great.
It means it is a very difficult time to play as things can change weekly and you don't know whether to play the rules as are or the CID rules and which week of that cycle you are playing etc. The other thing is that this doesn't look like it will change anytime soon with pretty much the entire game still to be looked at. There is a lot of potential but I think the game is 24 months away from being a finished MK3 product.
Guns don't kill people. People that say "Guns don't kill people" kill people. With guns.
Rick
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by Rick »

Oh and Company of Iron looks kinds meh to me
Guns don't kill people. People that say "Guns don't kill people" kill people. With guns.
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TheSerbianRaven
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by TheSerbianRaven »

Osim ako neko bas hoce da ima u kutiji jedan gotov skirmish game, ne znam zasto bi neko igrao CoI, umesto da uzme i pici Iron Kingdoms RPG. Combat u njemu je samo scaled-down verzija WMH, ko ne voli da fantazira moze lako samo da napravi likove i popratne light masine/beastove i igra ih kao Arenu.
Eiryss, Eiryss, Eiryss kako to zvuci, covece! Ali najbolje je sto ce Kreos ubiti tu Eiryss. Ubice je nezno, ali snazno! Da, to nije onaj Kreos sto je sebe proglasio za jadnika, ne ovo je novi Kreos, epski Kreos, super-grand-exemplar Kreos, kralj zena.
bjelajac
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by bjelajac »

Shunka wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:20 am b) često updateovanje pravila, zato što sam casual igrač koji voli da kupi svoje kartice, igra onako kako na karticama piše i ne razmišlja o erati od pre šest meseci a kamo li češće...
Ne brini oko ovoga, PP je rešio da od majskih izdanja više ne štampa kartice, tako da si tu pokriven. :grin:
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PainBringer
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Re: Warmachine:CoI

Post by PainBringer »

Ovde se pokrenula veoma zanimljiva diskusija, pa bih i ja dodao nesto:
- Glavna zamerka koju imam u vezi WM/H je to da ne vidim kako PP ocekuje da igru odrzava u zivotu iskljucivo izdavanjem novih modela. Ovo nije CCG, ali lagao bih ako bih rekao da se na trenutke nisam osecao kao da igram "Magic: the Gathering", samo sa figuricama umesto karata. Licno, voleo bih da postoje neki alternativni rezimi igranja WM/H (kampanje, istorijske bitke, neobicni scenariji i slicno). Knjige za Mk1 sadrzale su slican materijal, medjutim - toga odavno vise nema. Ovaj "CoI" vidim kao korak u pravom smeru, ali prekasno, rekao bih.
- Istovremeno, ja sam poslednjih par godina doziveo kao svojevrsno pozicioniranje WM/H kao zestoko kompetitivne igre - cak je i sama kompanija to isticala kao jednu od najvaznijih karakteristika u promo materijalima za MK3. Toliki fokus na takmicenje je poceo da mi smeta. Ja sam vise casual igrac nego takmicar, nemam nista protiv da povremeno odigram i neki turnir, ali ne zelim da modele sagledavam iskljucivo iz perspektive njihove korisnosti u takmicarskom okruzenju. Iskreno, sve manje mi je vazan balans - ionako sam odavno prestao da kupujem "korisne" modele i okrenuo se onima koji mi se svidjaju. Na kraju krajeva, ovo je (valjda) samo igra, zar ne? Steva je vec istakao sta je problem sa novim sistemom balansiranja, a slazem se i sa Shunkom da je cesto update-ovanje pravila stvorilo nove probleme. Sada je moguce usred partije otkriti da vas model "bas i ne radi kako ste mislili, jer niste obratili paznju na izmene od pre tri dana".
- Sto se samih pravila tice, nemam zamerki po pitanju MK3, ali za mene je verovatno najuzbudljiviji period igranja ove igre bio MK1. Mozda je to bilo zbog toga sto sam u tom periodu i sam poceo da igram - a mozda i nije. Voleo sam ona brda specijalnih pravila na kartama, tri razlicita wording-a za "Pathfinder", bilo mi je zabavno sto Vladimir moze da u prvom potezu pobije protivniku pola armije (iako tada nisam igrao Khador). Prelazak na MK2 je bio prilicno elegantan - i verujem da je postojao dobar razlog sto se preslo na novu ediciju. Medjutim, bojim se da je od tog trenutka pocelo povladjivanje hiper-kompetitivnoj, a veoma glasnoj manjini, koja je zelela da iskljucivo pobedjuje na turnirima, sto je dovelo do MK3 i pravila koja moras da update-ujes poput softvera. Mislim, ova igra se sasvim sigurno ne igra iskljucivo po velikim konvencijama - verujem da postoji veliki broj igraca koji je igra van klubova, sa prijateljima ili clanovima porodice i koje bas zabole za balans i CID i sve ostalo. Utisak je da su oni ovde najgore prosli.
- Cene necu da pominjem, tu je vec sve receno.

U proteklih godinu dana, igrao sam iskljucivo male partije i da budem iskren, one mi najvise prijaju, jer mogu da ih odigram nekoliko za jedno vece, a ne moram da ulazem preveliki napor i koncentraciju, niti da nosim gomilu modela.
Last edited by PainBringer on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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