VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

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deka
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by deka »

Snotling wrote:I kada cemo znaTi konacnu presudu? :D
Mrzimsvee wrote:Da napravimo mali kompromis, da ne ispadne da sam bezkompromisan, kao što jesam. ;)
Upotrebicu jedan Vidakov predlog, a to je da figure mogu da budu neofarbane(pod time mislim undercotovane, a ne sivci i srebrni letači), ali se na turniru ne može ostvariti pobeda (mislim na osvajanje turnira) niti bilo koja od nagrada osim best general. Takodje nemojte misliti da će ovim biti dozvoljeni proxiji jer neće.
Figure drugih proizvodjaca su naravno dozvoljene i konverzije na koje je utrošeno puno rada i materijala.
Mrzimsvee wrote:Naravno kao i uvek farbanje i baze i uniformisanost ce nositi dosta poena.
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milosh
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by milosh »

Jel ostao prvobitni stav da ce se igrati po ETC rules packu? Ako jeste ima li neko pojma sta ce se desiti sa novim lizardmenima tj sa njihovim restrikcijama? Jel postoji sansa da uskoro ugledaju svetlost dana (ovo pre svega pitam ljude koji prate ETC scenu)?
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Stari AR team ne želi da uradi kompanija za njih. To će biti posao novog ako ga elektuju.
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milosh
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by milosh »

Ok, kako mi zvuci ovo sto si napisao deluje kao da to nece biti uskoro. Sta se onda desava sa gusterima i mozda dark elfovima koji treba da izadju? Igramo po starim knjigama?
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Mrzimsvee
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Ne, uradicemo mi neki komp.
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Emperor of mankind – on the Creation of the Space Marines.

"By reason. By truth. I have learned how your hearts and minds function. With that lore, I brought peace to this culture."
"--At the cost of freedom."
"Peace reigns, as I reign. I wouldn't expect your to understand. You are a little man, with little dreams."
"--You've ushered in the peace of the graveyard. Peace, at the cost of surrendering all choice, all freedom. The city lies in terror, forced to live by the standards you place upon our shoulder."
"Yes...yes."
"--But every sin...is punished, but punished by death, no matter the crime. No matter the scale of the sin. The people of the city live in silence, lest a single word earn them death for speaking out against you."
"Yes. Listen. Listen to the sound of raw silence. Is it not serene?"
- Night Haunter addressing a gathering of Nostraman nobles

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."
vladamex
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by vladamex »

Evo par ideja ovde: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... ff35844d0b

Jedan od predloga je na primer:
Non character units consisting of less than 20 models and costing 130pts or under, max 6.
Salamander units, max 1.
Mounted Scar-Veterans, max 2.
Becalming Cogitations, Dispel Scroll & Cube of Darkness, max 1 total.
Meni ovo zvuci OK - ostali?
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igor
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by igor »

Mislim da treba neko da odigra par partija pa da se vidi, ovako na prvi pogled mi ne deluje bas mnogo jaka ogranicenja. :(
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Kako stoje stvari sa Liz compom. Oćemo da rešimo kako liste da izgledaju ili ne?

Ima nekih predloga kao što je gore, i još jedan koji koriste bugari:
This is the lizardmen comp we will be using for our team qualifiers:

Unit Specific Restrictions:
max 1 Salamander Units
max 3 Skink Skirmishers
max 2 Mounted Scar Vets
max 3 Stegadons

General Restrictions:
max 3 Flyers
max 6 non-character units under130pts & 20 models

Magic Restrictions:
Cube of Darkness, Becalming 1 DD each

FAQ:
Primal Fury does not work on supporting attacks
Pirahna Blade only works on close combat attacks
Engine of the gods: burning alignment targets units in Arc only
Preteran komp. Ja bi možda pustio liz da igraju bez kompa ali možda ću da ih vodim pa onda sa moje strane bilo bi smarački ako bi to uradio. Moj predlog je ovako:
This is the lizardmen comp we will be using for our team qualifiers:

Unit Specific Restrictions:
max 2 Mounted Scar Vets
max 3 Stegadons

max 8 non-character units under 130pts & 20 models

Magic Restrictions:
Cube of Darkness is 1 DD

FAQ:
Primal Fury does work on supporting attacks
Pirahna Blade only works on close combat attacks
A Skink Chief on terradon may join terradon units
A Skink cheif on ripperdactyl benefetis from the Toad rage special rule but can not place a bloat toad marker
Engine of the gods: Burning alignment targets units in 4d6"
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Mrzimsvee
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Koji ti predalzes da je najbolji?
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Emperor of mankind – on the Creation of the Space Marines.

"By reason. By truth. I have learned how your hearts and minds function. With that lore, I brought peace to this culture."
"--At the cost of freedom."
"Peace reigns, as I reign. I wouldn't expect your to understand. You are a little man, with little dreams."
"--You've ushered in the peace of the graveyard. Peace, at the cost of surrendering all choice, all freedom. The city lies in terror, forced to live by the standards you place upon our shoulder."
"Yes...yes."
"--But every sin...is punished, but punished by death, no matter the crime. No matter the scale of the sin. The people of the city live in silence, lest a single word earn them death for speaking out against you."
"Yes. Listen. Listen to the sound of raw silence. Is it not serene?"
- Night Haunter addressing a gathering of Nostraman nobles

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."
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kgkid
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by kgkid »

Kiwi, ti ih jos posjaca, umesto da ih kompujes ... xaxaxa

Bugarska je varijanta bolja, ali pod flyers da se posmatra "units with Fly Special rule" a ne "models" jer mislim da je to i Bugarima bila namera.
kuliraj dete, zivot je pred tobom.
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Mrzimsvee
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Ok
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Emperor of mankind – on the Creation of the Space Marines.

"By reason. By truth. I have learned how your hearts and minds function. With that lore, I brought peace to this culture."
"--At the cost of freedom."
"Peace reigns, as I reign. I wouldn't expect your to understand. You are a little man, with little dreams."
"--You've ushered in the peace of the graveyard. Peace, at the cost of surrendering all choice, all freedom. The city lies in terror, forced to live by the standards you place upon our shoulder."
"Yes...yes."
"--But every sin...is punished, but punished by death, no matter the crime. No matter the scale of the sin. The people of the city live in silence, lest a single word earn them death for speaking out against you."
"Yes. Listen. Listen to the sound of raw silence. Is it not serene?"
- Night Haunter addressing a gathering of Nostraman nobles

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Onda su preslabi. Nema razloga za tako jak comp po meni. Bugari su malo preterali sa 3 skink jedinice.... Jaci komp nego na ETCu a vojska znatno oslabljena nego u staroj knjizi. Jaci komp ali vojska slabija? Jeste dva puta sam napisao. Nema razloga da bude toliko tvrd comp kada skinkovi nisu toliko jaki kao pre. Ni salamanderi nisu toliko jaki a skuplji.

Isto slaan je preko 500 pojena sa itemima i kompuje se da bude na nivou da bude slabiji od HE maga koji kosta 270 pojena. Zato bi im cak i stavio +3pd/dd umesto max 2, ali onda becalming, scroll i cube su po jedan dd, tako da nema channela na dd i propada gift. Ovo zadjne nisam stavio jer sam mislio da će ljudi da se bune.

Evo onda necu da vodim lizardmene. Ali treba da budu jači.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Napisi sta mislis?
Kakav komp?
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Emperor of mankind – on the Creation of the Space Marines.

"By reason. By truth. I have learned how your hearts and minds function. With that lore, I brought peace to this culture."
"--At the cost of freedom."
"Peace reigns, as I reign. I wouldn't expect your to understand. You are a little man, with little dreams."
"--You've ushered in the peace of the graveyard. Peace, at the cost of surrendering all choice, all freedom. The city lies in terror, forced to live by the standards you place upon our shoulder."
"Yes...yes."
"--But every sin...is punished, but punished by death, no matter the crime. No matter the scale of the sin. The people of the city live in silence, lest a single word earn them death for speaking out against you."
"Yes. Listen. Listen to the sound of raw silence. Is it not serene?"
- Night Haunter addressing a gathering of Nostraman nobles

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Pa ono drugo ispod. Mislim da je to kool..... Može da se menja malo ili puno, kako god. Ako misliš da je max 8 jedinica previše onda da stavimo max 6.... samo to je bilo na ETCu, i bio je ok komp, ali sada su skinkovi ld5 i to puno znači. Isto tako kompuje riperdactzle koji su kool ali ne prejaki, i onda pravi liste bez njih da bi ostale stvari stale u tih max 6.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Dzon Vejn »

Skinkovi su znatno veci ld kada je karakter u 12"... plus su na 3d6. Ako se ne varam matematika je da je ld5 na 3d6 isto sto i ld 7 na 2d6.

Ja sam malo muljao po AB-u, i meni deluje da su sada akcenat prebacili malo na sauruse. Mislim da sa njima (posebno konjicom) moze da se napravi nekoliko dosta jakih (i specificnih) listi. Govorimo o etc okruzenju, gde se ne uparujes sa onime sto te ocisti sa table zbog tvoje specificnosti.
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Dzon Vejn wrote:Skinkovi su znatno veci ld kada je karakter u 12"... plus su na 3d6. Ako se ne varam matematika je da je ld5 na 3d6 isto sto i ld 7 na 2d6.
Aha dosta slicno, 52% sa ld5 cold blooded ili 58%ld7. Ali to je dosta mala sansa kada treba da ti ostanu napred da uradis double flee. Sada se tesko racuna na te taktike da upale.
Dzon Vejn wrote:Ja sam malo muljao po AB-u, i meni deluje da su sada akcenat prebacili malo na sauruse. Mislim da sa njima (posebno konjicom) moze da se napravi nekoliko dosta jakih (i specificnih) listi. Govorimo o etc okruzenju, gde se ne uparujes sa onime sto te ocisti sa table zbog tvoje specificnosti.
I ja isto mislim da su CoC sada odlični. Temple guarda su ok. Cak i jedinice kroxigora mogu biti ok. Ima lepih opcija sa 2 scar veterana sa cold one busom. Ideja tih max jedinica je da se ogranici pristup igri gde ne možes da uchargujes nista zbog ogromnoe kolicine chaffa. Pre je dupli slaan lepo radio posao jer je jedan BSB, drugi general, jedan daje re-roll, a jedan svoj ld. Onda je povrsina pokrivena dobrih ld dosta velika i nema veze u kojem pravcu beziš ok je. Druga opcija je Slaan koji je izdrzljiviji i može da hoda napred gde je ld potreban. Sada sa single slaan, videće se možda BSB skink koji siri režroll, ali sa ld 5 nije toliko pouzdano kao pre, osabljeno je, i mogao bi i comp malo da se popusti.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by joggy »

mojih 5 centi je da igru ustvari ubijaju magija kod svih armija i shooting kod nekih. Zato mislim da se treba najvise pozabaviti ovim problemom.

Moj predlog je da se ustvari ogranici max. nivo magije (recimo mozes da imas max 4 levela, u rasporedu koji ti hoces, mada mislim da je i to mnogo, ja bih stavio 3 lvl ukupno). Dalje, nema spec karaktera i itema ili pravila koja omogucavaju nekome da zna ceo lore ili da ima bonus magije. Zapravo, ideja je da armija moze da uzme max 4 spela sve ukupno u bilo kojoj kombinaciji itema, bound itema i abilityja. Max 4 kocke za cast bih stavio kod svih magija.

Shooting bih ogranicio imperiji prvenstveno, pa onda dwarfovima, kao i svim elfovima u principu. O tome nisam razmisljao, ali bih mogao da pogledam ako je neko zainteresovan.

Isto tako treba onemoguciti da cela armija bude jedna jedinica sa karakterima, kao i da imas 20 jedinica skirmisera, kao i 20 jedinica po 5 modela, kao i vecinu armije u flajerima ili monsterima, bilo da se racuna u poenima ili u broju. Ni o tome nisam razmisljao :), ali bih mogao ako ima zainteresovanih. Recimo moglo bi da osim max poena i broja modela se uvede i min poena i broj modela. Recimo, moglo bi da se uvede da ne mozes da uzmes drugu kopiju iste jedinice ako nemas barem jos 2 jedinice neceg drugog iz istog slota, dakle core za core, special za special i rare za rare. (sa izuzetkom core troopa, tu bih to povecao na 2 ili 3)

Kao sto se vidi, moja generalna ideja je da je ovo epska fantastika, pa shodno tome fokus treba da bude borba prsa u prsa a ne napucavanje magijama i topovima. Isto tako mislim da pravljenje compa za svaku armiju ponaosob nije dobro nego da treba napraviti comp koji vazi za sve armije.
"Narod u demokratiji ne može da pogreši. Kakva god da je odluka naroda to je odluka Boga." Vulin.
"Potrebno je da vozilo koje vrši transport ima onu ruku napred, da prebacuje... Imaju proizvođači, ja sad ne znam ko su“ Velja.
„Na Beka su pucali amateri, jednom je čak spala kapuljača“ Nesa.
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Yogurt
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Yogurt »

Kako god da izgleda komp izgleda. Pointa je srediti lizardmensku vojsku za veliki turnir po restrikcijama slicnim na ETCu.... dobri ili losi ETC restrikcije kakve su takve su.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by Kirgan »

Yogurt wrote:Kako god da izgleda komp izgleda. Pointa je srediti lizardmensku vojsku za veliki turnir po restrikcijama slicnim na ETCu.... dobri ili losi ETC restrikcije kakve su takve su.
Da, istina po ETC, mogu se kompovati malo neke armije, ali bar mesec pre turnira, ali ne dirati mehaniku.
Licno bi dao izmedju 3-6 Lvl-a magije (to se nikako ne mogu smisliti), 2 ratne masine, 6 kocija, 3 letaca (ukljucjuci karaktere), 1 HKB, 60 pucaca, 2 MC, 1 Lord choice, 4 skirmish unit.
To je ono sto mi je palo na pamet na brzinu :twisted:
Josef Quartjin (Enemy Within):

"Zbogom Wittgendorf-e na k...c te nabijem" Sommerzeit 13. 2512.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by vladamex »

Yogurt wrote:Kako god da izgleda komp izgleda. Pointa je srediti lizardmensku vojsku za veliki turnir po restrikcijama slicnim na ETCu.... dobri ili losi ETC restrikcije kakve su takve su.
Izgleda da cemo imati slican izazov i za Dark Elfove, posto su za vikend dobili novu knjigu.

Koliko sam video na netu, jedino sto izgleda "insanely good" su Warlocks - ostalo izgleda relativno fino izbalansirano (kvalitet proporcionalan ceni). Knjiga ima gomilu odlicnih opcija i sjajnih kombinacija, ali cena ne dozvoljava da se sve ubaci u jednu listu :)

Mozda treba razmisliti da Warlocks budu ograniceni na 0-1, posto sa 2 ili vise tih jedinica moze da bude dosta spamovanja Doombolt/(boosted) Soulblight :)

Komentari?
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igor
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by igor »

Meni je prvo a i jedino pao u oko taj moguci doombolt spam. :D
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by vladamex »

igor wrote:Meni je prvo a i jedino pao u oko taj moguci doombolt spam. :D
Takodje, posto su Warlocks zapravo Fast Cav, DE bi mogao da napravi all-out avoidance listu sa 3+ Dark Riders kao core plus 2 x Warlocks kao Rare, tako da genericki ETC fast cav limit od 0-3 verovatno treba da obuhvati i Warlocks. Cinjenica da Sorceress u jedinici DR/Warlocks takodje dobija Fast Cav rule dodatno olaksava pravljenje avoidance liste.

Interesantno je da DE sada imaju dve najjace Fast Cav jedinice u igri :)
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by joggy »

Ne vidim nikakvu promenu u pravilima (ne neku bitnu u svakom slucaju) u odnosu na restrikcije koje su vec postojale od ranije.
Dakle, magic: the gathering sa magovima koji imaju 40-ak rana.
"Narod u demokratiji ne može da pogreši. Kakva god da je odluka naroda to je odluka Boga." Vulin.
"Potrebno je da vozilo koje vrši transport ima onu ruku napred, da prebacuje... Imaju proizvođači, ja sad ne znam ko su“ Velja.
„Na Beka su pucali amateri, jednom je čak spala kapuljača“ Nesa.
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Re: VELIKI WH TURNIR 2013

Post by srebrni vitez »

Ето и мене. Наравно са Бретонцима. Обојеним Бретонцима. И мислим да је крајње време да се заузме јасан став да се обојене војске значајно стимулишу у односу на необојене. Јер финансијско стање играча је једно, а лењост нешто сасвим друго. Ако неко нема новца да купи оригинале - или просто не жели да даје силне паре за то, увек има алтернативне начине да врло јефтиније састави војску. Тако сам и ја радио и не видим у томе ништа лоше. Али, лењивац који излази са црним мрљама и белим аветима или сребрним летачима нема шта да тражи на великом турниру. Граница мора да постоји. Мислим да је медвеђа услуга хобију да се на великим турнирима из године у годину допушта учешће необојеним војскама. То је мој дугогодишњи став, а верујем да га многи играчи деле. А што се фигура тиче, свака фигура која се јасно и недвосмислено препознаје као одговарајућа - добро је дошл,а без обзира на оригиналност или произвођача.
"Пoкa цapь Hикoлaй вoйнy вoeвaл,
Pacпутин eму жeну пoeбaл!"
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