Vampire: the Eternal Struggle - opsta diskusija

[PhantomLord]

Hmm... Pa i nije to toliko strašno, koliko je zamorno za gledati... Mislim, ubije ti želju za igrom, no, uvijek se svemu može doskočiti, pa tako i toj sitnoj prepreci. Theft se uvijek može dodgeati, politika uvijek može nanijeti jako puno štete, a stealth bleed, pa, to je upravo to, koliko god ikome (pod tim mislim meni) bilo mrsko igrati. Puno je zanimljiviji bruise bleed, ako ćeš već biti bleeder... :D

[Resurrection]

Bloat dek ima osnovni cilj da prezivi bez obzira ko mu je predator ali zbog toga ima problema sa ubijanjam preja jer je fokusiran na sebe.
Obicno se pravi u kombinaciji sa tzv Attrition konceptom (Anarch revolt, Antedeluvian awakening za polagano ubijanje celog stola ali prvenstveno preya) mada ovo sto sam ja pavio u principu bio bleed&bloat tako da je bio malo efikasniji sto se tice ubijanja onog koga treba :D

[Dawngreeter]

Bloat nikada nije paradigma za sebe, tj. ne postoji fokusirani bloat deck. Najcesca kombinacije je Vote/Bloat, mada moj ljubljeni Princes With Guns se takodje moze smatrati bloat-om, do duse ne svojom krivicom :D

[Resurrection]

Nisam ni rekoa da postoji "fokusiran bloat" nego da bloat dek dosta akcija i karata potrosi na bloat (duh!) pa je malo otezano efikasno ubijanje preja. Taj deo se nejcesce radi, kako sto smo vec rekli, ili politikom (Parity shift tu rula) ili Anarch revoltima itd.

Ja mogu opet danas do Guilda ako ima neko raspolozen za igranje?
Samo javite na vreme da ne bude da se sam pojavim.
Griteru, jel ti skola danas dozvoljava da se pojavis? :D

[Hypodermic]

Ja sam tamo od osam, samo molim boga da ovog puta bude duza partija.

[Resurrection]

Neko za igranje danas?

[Hypodermic]

Ja sam uvek
Tamo sam od 8

[Resurrection]

Oki. Dolazimo ja i ortak i ne znam ko ce jos biti tamo pa ce da igramo.

[KruvaMastiSlanine]

oj pozdrav dobri ljudi!
ja sam isto iz osijeka i igram vtes
nesto ste bili spominjali(tj ressurection je spominjao) da bi dolazili vi do nas(nisam siguran jel vise vas ili samo on)
ako bi, onda si mi kontamo da bi mogli odraditi neki sluzbeni storyline turnir
inace sto se tice rasprave od 90 card limita, vecina nas se toga pridrzava, samo nekoliko ljudi ne ide po tom pravilu, a mi ga ne forsiramo jer cilj je dobro se zabaviti i to je to
inace nemora biti da je veci deck superiorniji od manjeg, cak ni ako je combat, jer kad-tad se zastopa, a i sjecam se trenutka kad je karo igrao anarhe sa 180 karata protiv mojih ravnosa i izdeckao se a ja nisam bio ni na pola puta(ja sam imao 90 karata)
aj javite kad kontate dolazit pa da vas znamo docekati...

[Resurrection]

Moj dolazak je doveden u pitanje pogotovo ako ne budem imao pratnju :D
Ako nagovorim neke ljude da idemo onda ce biti lakse.

Naravno da je cilj zabaviti se ali najzabavnije je kad pobedis 8)

[Resurrection]

Preview nekih karata za trecu ediciju pocinje 15 Auvgusta.

Nova pravila (vazice tek po izlasku edicije):

New Rules

Remember that updated rules don't go into effect until the set is legal for play.

Trifles: This set updates the trifle rules both to remove the restriction against playing more than one trifle in each master phase (although only the first one grants an additional master phase action), and to handle out-of-turn trifles (which function just as you would expect).

Draft effects: New to this set, some of the booster cards (reprints included) that require a Discipline or clan to use have additional texts on them which give them an alternate way of being used in draft and sealed tournaments. Sometimes this alternate use is the same effect as the normal usage, but with a different requirement. Other times, it is a different usage (and often both). The alternate uses are clearly labeled with "DRAFT:" text and set apart from the normal card text. The alternate effect is only usable in draft and sealed play. In standard constructed play, the draft text is ignored


Ovo za Trifle mastere je odlicno pravilo.
Sada mozes da odigras 2 Life in the City i dobijes 2 blooda ili 2 vampira pretvoris u anarhe sa Galaric's Legacy.
Nejbitnije je da trifleovi vise nece moci da ti zaglave hand tako lako mada, generalno, ovih 17 koji postoje i nemaju neke efekte koji su ti neophodni odjednom.
Verovatno ce da izadje gomila novih Trifleova koje ima smisla ubacivati vise kopija u dek.
Master-out-of-turn trifle ce, ocigledno, davati dodatnu mastar fazu u sledecme potezu sto nikad nije beskorisno ako sami trifleovi ne budu beskorisni:D

Jos samo da saznamo ko ide u inostranstvo u Septembru da pokupuje sto sta :D

[Resurrection]

Mali kurs iz "Table dynamics".
Par uputstava za startegiju za pobedu i ne nevlacenja besa celog stola na sebe. korisno za novajlije (jel sad vidis, Boco zasto se ne bacaju Sudden-i na sve strane :D)

Jeste da mi je dosadno ali me ipak mrzi da prevodim a i nije neki tazak engleski tako da nema ni potrebe. :

Strategy

I have to start with a disclaimer: This is a
somewhat abstract discussion. I take it for granted that the
strategical bit is sorted out: Your deck is capable of ousting people,
and it has a means to defend. This is obviously not trivial. I also
assume that you are not playing say a speed weenie blitz that doesn't
care about table control. My whole point is that you actually should
care about the rest of the table, because I know no deck that can
reliably ignore it. That's IMHO the main reason why, as often pointed
out by Fred Scott and others, weenie decks might seem abusive, but
don't win tournaments on a big scale.

I want to make a few points about two questions that repeatedly arise:

How to shape a table in your favour, and
How to avoid cross-table hostilities against you.

The Goal
You only need 3 VPs to win the table. No one expects you to sweep. 3
VPs means: Oust your prey and be the last man standing. Or oust three
preys and perish (or sweep). Both approaches have their merrits, and
often it's pretty clear whether you will go one way or the other after
getting your first VP. But never expose yourself when gaining a second
VP! If it falls into your hand: fine. If not: Play defensively - once
you are ousted, your chances to win are gone. 2 VPs is not a GW (*),
and losing too many valuable resources in gaining it spells desaster.
Of course sometimes you just need the 6 pool you gain to stay in the
game, but then something has gone wrong with your defense earlier (see
disclaimer in the beginning).

(*) Of course there is the 2/1/1/1 or 2/1/1 scenario, but as this next
to impossible to control, I advise against counting on it.

Playing to (the) beat
Avoid being the obvious threat. Each table has a rhythm. Normally this
rhythm is established by the majority of decks on the table, it
defines the point when you will be seen as a threat. The slower the
table, the greater the danger becomes to be identified as a threat
when going for the oust too soon. You can either deal with it (being
an "amok deck" that just tries to grab as many VPs as possible as
quickly as possible - say weenie bleed), or you are in trouble. I
think my colleague Sten During was the first to distinguish between
early, mid and end game (as in chess). Let me put it this way: Be
unthreatening in the early game, secure a VP in the middle game
(ideally at a time when someone else is about to do the same) and
quickly proceed towards the end game - either by immediately trying to
collect more VPs, or by consolidating your defense.

Strength through unity
Identify temporary allies. On a five player table (5PT) two players
seem to be natural allies: Your grand prey and your grand predator.
(This is another reason why going for 3 ousts is the more difficult
approach - you have to oust them both to win. But of course I wrote
"temporary allies": If your deck has the forward momentum to carry you
through both of them, don't stop. But I say it again: If your momentum
will barely bring you to a second VP, stop immediately.)
There are a couple of reasons why your grand-predator is better suited
for your needs:

He puts pressure on your prey, helping your defense.
He is not directly affected if he helps you to gain a VP - i.e you
will not be his new predator.

Of course it's perfectly okay to keep your grand-prey in the game when
your prey applies a lot of forward pressure (especially when "riding
the wave" of an aggressive prey - I almost always try to be the
predator of a weenie bleed deck in a final, as they don't defend
against me and with a bit of effort I can get them shortly before they
would get their prey, and that second VP as well). But in the long run
he is not the one you want to gain the other 2 VPs plus the resources
that brings. This gives another reason for not starting too
agressively (apart from becoming the obvious threat): If you force
your prey into prolonged defense, your grand prey has a free run on
your grand predator, which on a 5PT means a strong predator for you.

The Enemy
Your prey is doomed! You have to control (*) your prey at all costs -
if you don't, he can win the game (by ousting all other players) on a
5PT or decline you a GW on a 4PT without you having a direct influence
on this. Oust him, and do it before he ousts anyone. This is the first
and for some decks (intercept, combat) most important step of a game:
Secure 1 VP.

(*) Control can mean many things, but it all boils down to putting
pressure on someone. Be it by direct actions (bleed, rush etc.),
strong defense, or by giving other players breathing space or even
direct help so that they can attack him more efficiently.

Another enemy
Your predator is (almost always) also doomed! Apart from a 5PT with a
3 VP forward sweep where it doesn't matter if he gains the remaining
2, he must be ousted. And it doesn't matter whether you do it or
someone else! It can be a good bargain to let your grand predator get
him if you can also get your first VP at about the same time.

The final crossroad
There is another critical step in every game: the three player game.
We will take it for granted that you are not losing already and have
gained 1 VP, but the table is not "collapsing" yet, meaning that your
advantage is so huge that you can march forward to victory without
major tactical problems. At this point every remaining player still
has a chance to win the game, and eliminating you will most of the
times (apart from when you're original grand predator got a VP on a
5PT already - another reason he's your best "temporary ally") still
give both opponents the chance to win. Only if your prey is really
weak you should aim for a straight oust. Otherwise, try to get him
temporarily into your boat: He needs to oust your predator to win.
Help him, play defensively, but do not let him grow too strong.
Remember: He needs that oust. He has to risk something, make him pay
for it. But avoid an alliance against you!

Valjda uspevate da uocite cari ove igre i iz razloga sto se ne zasniva sve na prvom handu ili otvaranju ili ko prvi igra ili ko je dao vise para za karte (*kah* *kah* Tragic: the Gardnering *kah*) :D

[Resurrection]

Blah. Izgleda su svi digli ruke od VtES?
Jel bar citate ovo sto nadjem po drugim sajtovima ili da ne postujem ni to?

[Hypodermic]

Ne brini se, citamo. Ima mnogo dobrih karata u trecoj ediciji, koliko vidim. Sto se table dynamics tice, jos uvek nisam stigao da procitam, ali procitacu. Mada nema potrebe da bude meni upuceno, ti zlopamtilo jedno :P

A da navuces Voju da cita forum? Malo i on da se aktivira...

[Resurrection]

Ne znadem mu mejl pa da mu saljem link, mada i sumnjam da bi se nesto aktivirao.
Ne znam sta je sa ljudima koji su do sad postovali ali ova tema ima skoro 6000 pregleda ali su svi nesto stidljivi da kazu ili pitaju.

U Subotu smo u Hobiju, verovatno oko 1-2 pa budi tamo da zaigramo :D

[Resurrection]

So no one told you V:TES had to be like this
Your deck's sucks hard, no decent cards will ever
come into your fist

And now you're stuck between two neebie geeks
They've got black tees, clan pins
And smell like they haven't washed for weeks
and..

Dominate's busteeeeeeed
When the Deflections fall like rain
Dominate's busteeeed
'cos it's got Mind Rape
Dominate's busteeeed
And it'll destroy yoooooooou

You transferred down to ten
and just got bled for eight
On the end of a bleed-bounce chain
Things are going great

The newsgroup warned there'd be games like these
But it didn't tell you you'd be forced to make
Desperate cross-table pleas

Dominate's busteeeeeeed
When the Deflections fall like rain
Dominate's busteeeed
'cos it's got Mind Rape
Dominate's busteeeed
And it'll destroy yoooooooou

No one will ever help you
Not even try a rescue
Seems the only one who knows
How to play this game's me
My grand pred's always bleeding
At zero stealth, then laying Conditioning
Whilst my predator smirks and declares blocking
Even at my best I'm screwed by you, yeah

And now you're stuck between two neebie geeks
They've got black tees, clan pins
And smell like they haven't washed for weeks
and..

Dominate's busteeeeeeed....

[Hypodermic]

Nikice, na kojim si ti drogama? 8O

[Resurrection]

Jok ja, samo mi je dosadno

VtES haiku:

Crazy malkavs? No!
stealth, bleed, stealth, bleed, again
the other players yawn
======================

Ode to Enkidu -

Bad man, hurty dragon
He will break you and yours
My ready region is empty

=====================
One who does not add
ten bounce cards to his deck will
become bleed sink. Why?

======================
Baali haiku

If you trust the ones
Who burn a pool to untap
It is time to die

======================
Igo the Hungry.
What does Igo hunger for?
Only Igo knows.


Uriah is gone.
My prey has the bugger now.
Let the fun begin.

=======================


:):):)

[Resurrection]

Da ne brljamo po onoj temi:

Vidis, zanimljivo. A bio sam ubedjen da se hunt vodi kao 'action card' za potrebe ponovljenih akcija...

Da je u igri Restriceted Vite* pa vampir huntuje sa drugog to ne bi mogao da ponovi jer je huntovao pomocu karte na stolu ali bi mogao ponovo da huntuje normalno odmah posle toga.


Restricted Vitae
Type: Event
Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire successfully hunts.
Vampires cannot hunt unless forced to hunt. A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a (D) action instead of performing the usual hunt action.

[Resurrection]

Sad sam citao raport sa nekog turnira u Finskoj.
Bilo je 95 ucesnika.
'Ocu i jaaaa

Jel neko za partiju koju u Nedelju u Hobiju?

[Hypodermic]

moze subota? Nedelja mi je bukirana...

[Resurrection]

Moram da strebam za ispitu u nedelju pa sam taman mislio da svrnem posle tako da ne mogu u subotu.
Vidi sa Vojom, Zlim i onim likovima sto sa tobom pokupovase karte po Rvackoj.

[Resurrection]

Boco, jel ti odgovara sad u subotu? (tj sutra?)

I posalji mi na na pp tvoj mejl i ako znas mejlove onih likova sto sto su kupili VtES u Zagrebu kad bejaste pa da napravim mejling listu da se ne smaram sa ovim pojedinacnim zivkanjma:)

Kragujevcani, kako ide igranje sad kad ste malo bolje upoznali pravila?:)

[Hypodermic]

Moj mail imas u mom profilu, d'oh.
Mogu sada u subotu, iovako sma tamo da bi se igrao sa stalkerom. Ne znam od tacno koliko sam tamo, mozda banem i u 12, ali presudna cinjenica ce biti KADA ustanem

[Resurrection]

Hajde budi fini pa se malo iscimaj i javi mi mejlove onih likova (Sutic i kompanija) 8)

[Hypodermic]

Errr...nemam

[Resurrection]

Ok, ali ti ces ih pre sresti (a i prepoznati ) nego ja a hteo bih da sve stavim na mejling listu pa da se ne smaram ovako oko zivkanja i obavestavanja o VtES (prvenstveno o terminima kad se igra).

[Resurrection]

E pa mala digresija, sto se tice ne vikend okupljanja ja mogu da se izorganizujem, sto se tice lokacija cuo sam da ima nesto na obelicjevom vencu, tebi bi se Niki svidelo znash skupljaju se i clanovi Mense.

Nemoj da brljas po onoj temi sa pravilima i onako su dovoljno komplikovana:D

Mislis na neku kavanu gde ima valikih stolova i nenadrkanih konobara koji nas nece smarati sto ne pijemo za sve pare?
A ako mislis na <random color> Dragon mislim da se tamo skuplja pravise Yu-ghi-oh! klinaca pa nekim VtESovcima ne odgovara.

Saznaj poblize gde je i sta je pa cu da proverim.

Mensijanci su smaraci i nisam platio clanarinu za ovu godinu :P

[Neogoth]

Da, da.... mislim na random color dragon, to je valjda u nekom suterenu. A sto se tice YU-GHI-OH-ovaca... kakve veze ima, krvi cemo im se napiti

[Hypodermic]

ni cain sam nema kapaciteta da popije toliku kolicinu krvi... Bolje da se nadjemo negde napolju dok he lepo vreme :P
ali ja nemogu ovog vikenda, a preko nedelje moram da ucim - ili barem da pokusam da ucim

[Resurrection]

Meni ne bi smetali klinci ali mislim da je i Voja bio protivu tog mesta zbog klinaca. Sumnjam bas da bi stajali iznad nas svih 2-3 sata i smarali.
Nije nista gore nego kad smo igrali u vise grupa pa se deru i oni za susednim stolom:)

Mogli bi da odemo jednom cisto da vidimo da li se moze igrati pa camo lako da se vratimo u HS ako je naporno.
Mogli bi sad u subotu i taman ti Boco mozda mozes da svrnes jer ti je blizu.

[Resurrection]

Izasao update za Anarch Revolt Deckbuilder

http://francois.gombault.free.fr/ardb/

Sadrzi sve karte iz 3Ed.

Odoh da kopam:D

[Resurrection]

Jeste za neki mini turnir sledeceg vikenda?
Neke minimalne uplate (u zavisnosti od broja prijavljenih) i pobednik dobija sve sto moze da pojede u Duffu?:D
Cisto da igramo zbog atmosfere jer mi je mnogo zanimljivije kad ljudi paze sta rede i igraju koncetrisanije nego u frendly partiji.

EDIT: A imoglo bi nas nekoliko starijih metuzelaha da prikupi nesto karata koje nam ne trebaju pa da ih damo najbolje plasiranom pocetniku ili tako nesto.

Predlozi, sugestije, kritike, phone sex?:D

[Neogoth]

Avatar govori vishe no 1000 reci!

[Mohammed]

Ja sam Darko iz KG i pocinjao sam nesto da igram Vampire,ali stajao sam,itd,..............no,glavni problem je to sto nemam sa kim da igram!
Pravila slabo znam(nesto sam i znao,pa sam zaboravio)........
Nego,jer moze neko od vas da mi pomogne ili ne?

[Hypodermic]

Naravno da mozemo da pomognemo, samo ces morati da precizias kakva ti pomoc treba

Da li imas probleme sa pravilima, nemas sa kim da igras, ne znas sta da skupljas, ili nesto cetvrto?

[Resurrection]

Zar Changeling i njegova ekipa nisu iz KG?

[Changeling]

Ovaj mladic je pocinjao i bataljivao, verujem i MTG i VTES...

Mora to malo odlucnije; kad zaista resi da se upusti u jednu od ovih
igara naravno da cemo ga rado naciniti ghoulom.... ovaj, embrace-ovati.

[Resurrection]

Izdogovarajte se vi medjusobno preko pp pa se nadjite na kojoj partiji ili sta god.
Mi i onako nista dalje ne mozemo da uradimo sem ako nema nameru da se cima do BG.

[Neogoth]

E krvopije, svratite na hrvatski forum, ljudi su se sjajno izorganizovali i stvarno nesto rade na temu... za svaku pohvalu, nema sta ozbiljni su, a i ekipa je izgleda ok. Naravno nikica je vec ostavio svoj pecat