[VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Eh, da, i umalo da zaboravim, za sve koji su me juce ubedjivali da sam u krivu, ukljucujuci naseg princa i Mirka koji je "pitao LSJ-a, neka proverim na netu", bio sam u pravu vezano za Trifle mastere :
Trifle: Some master cards are identified as trifles. When a Methuselah plays a trifle (and it isn't canceled), she gains an additional master phase action. For an out-of-turn trifle, she gains a master phase action in her next master phase. A Methuselah can gain only one master phase action from trifles in a given master phase; others act like regular master cards.
Ja sam podebljao crvenom.
Znaci, ako imas Ansona, nanu buruku, parthenon... itd. MOZES da odigras sledece:
prva master faza: Villein (pa dobijes dodatnu), pa giant's blood, pa
druga master faza : ponovo villein (pa dobijes dodatnu) pa neki kojigod master.
Da se zna za ubuduce...
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Takodje, definitivni clearing pravila oko minion tap-villein interakcije. Svaki cost karte se placa kada se rezolvuje, medjutim, ne smes pokrenuti akciju koju ne mozes u trenutku pokretanja da platis (iako bi u rezoluciji potencijalno mogao).
Dakle:
Ako imas jedan pul, u igri je jedan villein. Mozes odigrati minion tap za koliko god, platis pul, dobijes koliko si tapovao, nisi oustovan.
Ako imas jedan pul, a u igri je dva villeina, ne mozes minion tapovati uopste, jer ne mozes platiti najavljeni minion tap...
Malo glupavo, ali i sa jedne strane logicno...

edit: zaboravio link :
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 7404ddd092
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

Znaci, ako imas Ansona, nanu buruku, parthenon... itd. MOZES da odigras sledece:
prva master faza: Villein (pa dobijes dodatnu), pa giant's blood, pa
druga master faza : ponovo villein (pa dobijes dodatnu) pa neki kojigod master.
Da se zna za ubuduce...
ne, ne... master phase je deo turna, kao npr minion phase. nemas ih vise - samo jedan po krugu. znaci, master karata mozes odigrati onoliko koliko imas master phase actiona + 1 trifle. Trifle se igra kao deo jedne master phase akcije.
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Aaaah, i get it :-)
Ustvari, zeznuo sam jer imam starog Ansona, koji ima outdateovan tekst, koji dodaje master fazu. Vidim da su na novijem izdanju promenili tekst da dodaje master phase action. Kao i nana buruku i parthenon :-D. My bad :-D
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Ponovo za nevernog Krleta:
Saulot+Enkil cog+marioneta = lockovan minion

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 28eab9c692
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

Evo odgovora na pitanje da li se rezultati referenduma priskusa mogu menjati i posle podreferenduma.

http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/35990.aspx


sumarno - odgovor je da mogu, to jest - ako priskus glasa i prodje na svom podreferendumu, njegovi glasovi u glavnom referendumu mogu biti promenjeni, a samim tim i glasovi prisci bloka. takodje prisci podreferendum se odvija paralelno sa glavnim referendumom.
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

djole, ovaj... odgovor je ne-ne mogu...
megabaja:
Can I cancel the vote of a priscus after pricus referendum, and will that change priscus subreferendum?



"after the priscus referendum" = "after the referendum", so no.

You can, however, change the Priscus's votes during the referendum (before tallying the results).
iz tvog linka.
Mogu se menjati u toku samog prisci sub-referenduma, medjutim, onog trenutka kada je sub-referendum zakljucen, on je zakljucen, i nema vise menjanja.
Naravno da se odvija paralelno sa glavnim referendumom. Ali ne zavrsava kad i glavni referendum, vec onda kada se priscusi na stolu sloze oko toga kako ce baciti svoja tri glasa (za, protiv ili abstain).
Ili mozda nisam dobro shvatio?

edit: priscus nema svoje glasove u glavnom referendumu (osim genevive), tj njegovi glasovi su 0 i kao takvi se mogu menjati. To pise u osnovnim pravilima.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

Mogu se menjati u toku samog prisci sub-referenduma, medjutim, onog trenutka kada je sub-referendum zakljucen, on je zakljucen, i nema vise menjanja.
ne, ne, ne... sam referendum traje koliko i glavni referendum, a glasovi se mogu menjati kao i u glavnom referendumu, sto direktno utice na podreferendum, a samim tim i na glavni referendum, tako scalpel tongue gasi priskusa dok god se referendum ne zavrsi.

a mozes i da postavis pitanje tamo, ako zelis da ti oni pojasne...
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/35990.aspx

Pobeda za mene, mada si i ti bio u pravu.
Scalpel tongue nikada ne moze da gasi priscusa, jer moze da ugasi samo glasove u main referendumu (osim u slucaju da je priscus glasao i u main referendumu, onda mu ubije sve glasove, ukljucujuci i priscus vote). U prisci sub-referendumu nema NIKAKVIH modifera ( nema bewitchinga, scalpel tonguea, itd...), politickih karata niti edgea. Ali recimo, Demonstracija bo mogla da ukine (retrogradno) priskus glasove, efektivno menjajuci ishod prisci sub-referenduma.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Ponovo za nevernog Krleta :
> Isn't it so that you can't do Ankou's special action, any Madness
> Network actions nor use Enkil Cog until after the acting methuselah
> has done everything he can/wants to do? E.g. a vampire with Rutor's
> Hand hunts, untaps, and does another action, and only after that Ankou
> can attempt to burn the vampire.

Yes, it is so. The acting Methuselah gets the first chance to declare
the next action.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... bf25de09aa
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by abadrozin »

jedno pitanje (ipak dva)? :wink:

da li Secure Haven moze da se odigra na Imbued miniona?
Ovo me buni jer nigde ne mogu da nadjem neko posebno pravilo u vezi card type "haven", tj. da li samo vampir moze da ima haven. Vidim da u nekim turnirskim imbued only spilovima drze Secure Haven ( http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com/decks/hello_nurse.htm ), pa ako je moguce igrati Secure Haven na Imbued, da li to znaci da Secure Haven nikada nece biti skinut sa miniona s obzior da nikada ne odlazi u torpor? \:D/
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

da. mozes da igras Secure Heaven na bilo kog miniona, kao sto i pise na karti.
Pamti, pa vrati...

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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by abadrozin »

hvala na odgovoru, a sta se desi kada je Imbued minion bez lajfa (incapacitated), da li Secure Haven ostaje na njemu s obzirom da nije otisao u torpor?
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

ostaje na njemu zauvek. bas kao sto si rekao,
Pamti, pa vrati...

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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by abadrozin »

muci nas jedna dilema vec neko vreme pa da razjasnimo zauvek... first strike vs. strike: combat ends

jasno nam je da se combat ends razresava pre first strikea, buni nas kada se konkretno igra combat ends, evo situacije:

vampir A je acting i u kombatu ima first strike. vampir B nema first stike.
vampir A pretvara svoj first strike u aggr. (ili bilo sta drugo, nebitno je).

e, ovde nastaje zabuna - da li vampir B, koji zeli da odigra strike: combat ends, treba da najavi da ce njegov strike biti combat ends (i time stavi do znanja da je uspesno izbegao first stike), ili moze jednostavno da kaze "doooobro, ok dalje..." i da saceka da akting vampir odredi i svoj regularni strike, pa tek onda otkrije svoj strike:combat ends?
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Jako pogresno igrate.
First strike Vampira A (akting vampira) JESTE njegov regularni strike.
Znaci, vampir A izabere neki strike sa first strikeom (kao svoj regularni strike). Vampir B igra Combat ends. Vampir a NE MOZE da iga additional strikes jer je kombat zavrsio.
Nadam se da je malo jasnije...
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by abadrozin »

auuu, pa mi smo mu jebali kevu koliko smo lose igrali :oops:

dakle, first strike je ustvari jedan jedini strike koji vampir ima (ako ne baca additional) koji se samo razresava pre regularnog, tj. nisu simultani.

ah, kakva tuga, mi smo to uvek igrali kao kvazi-additional stike pre regularnog, sad mi je jasno zasto nismo mogli da nadjemo odgovor na netu. :mrgreen:
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

first strike prakticno znaci da je tvoj vampir brzi sa osnovnim udarcem, ali i dalje ga najavljuje u isto vreme. znaci cak i ako blokira, prvo akting najavi svoj strajk, pa onda bloker najavi svoj.
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by abadrozin »

Iako sam nasao odgovor na pitanje i dalje mi nije jasan odgovor zasto ne moze, pa ako bi neko mogao da mi pojasni:


LSJ

floppyzedolfin wrote:
Hello,
Can a tapped Imbued use Vigilance (reaction) to untap and play
Determine as is his predator plays Bum's Rush?

No. Vigilance's effect is not an "as some card is played" effect.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 60b7cf4913
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Evo ovako:
Vampir a igra bum's rush.
Vampir b tada moze da igra determine jer u tom momentu je karta igrana ("as it is played")
Ako odigra reakciju (vigilance), koja se ne igra u "prozoru" "as it is played", taj deo akcije je prosao , i ne mozes rewindovati na njega.
JEdnostavno...
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Kada koristis sargon fragment da uzmes kartu iz groblja moras da najavis koja je to karta :

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... faf5d1b475
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Knight »

Cool... Nego, sta se desava sa draftom? ;))
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Naraj »

U klubu juce nisu mogli da se sloze, pa da pitam ovde. Da li tekst od http://www.secretlibrary.info/index.php moze da prekine blood hunt?
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

tekst od cega?
Link ti ne radi...
inace, blood hunt nista ne prekida, a da ja znam osim karata koje to specificno kazu.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Naraj »

Tekst od Fakira:
Before votes are cast, Fakir may burn 3 blood to cause the referendum of a political action to fail.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

edit, svi smo glupi, i ne citamo kartu a lepo pise na njoj

Independent. Before votes are cast, Fakir may burn 3 blood to causes the referendum of a political action to fail. He gets an optional press each combat. +1 bleed. +1 strength.

On moze da fejluje samo referendume koji su posledica politickih akcija. Nema ukidanja blad hanta. Of nije or.
Doduse, postovao sam na newsgrupu, pa cemo videti i lsj-ev odgovor...
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Baroni tesko kontestuju titule sa pravim vlasnicima :
Baron is a title that can only be held by an anarch. A ready baron gets 2 votes. The title of baron is associated with a particular city and can be contested by another vampire who claims the title of prince, archbishop or baron of the same city. If the title is contested with a prince or an archbishop, then the anarch's cost to contest it is increased by 1 blood. If a baron loses his anarch status, he loses the benefit of the title until he becomes anarch again, as usual for titles.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

i win again :
LSJ wrote:
> François wrote:
> > Hello,

> > A referendum to burn a Fee Stake is called. Are Priscus
> > sub-referendum's votes affected by the clause "In that referendum,
> > non-anarch titles are worth 1 fewer votes", as in Free States Rant ?

> No.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Jebote, zabolece me glava koliko sam puta u pravu :
I win the vagabond mystic debate ;
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6179235#6179235

Takodje, prve tradicije su svaka odvojeno sto se tice pool spaljivanja, odnosno cumulative penalties od 6 poola za svaku posebno... nasty...
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by GoxY »

To je to ja od sada vodim log nesuglasica oko pravila i tacno cu da zapisem ko je sta rekao. Mnogo se ekskrementa konzumira a posle porice umesanost.
:-({|= :-({|= :-({|=

BTW, prema ovom linku koji si dao za sargon fragment bi trebalo za sve zivo sto se uzima iz graveyarda da se naznaci sta se uzima. Presumably isto tako i za Sudario Refraction mada tekst nije IDENTICAN.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

A jel' goxy..?
Odlicno, ti si nadlezan :-D :twisted:
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Megabaja »

aj neka neko ko je registrovan tamo pita da li se aid from bats protiv lucian the perfecta placa odmah po igranju, odnosno da li se pod grappleom placa uopste.
Pamti, pa vrati...

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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

pitacu ja, samo kad nadjem vremena... Ili ce goxy koji je poznavalac pravila to preuzeti na sebe ? :lol: :lol:
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by GoxY »

nisam ja poznavalac pravila nego chronicler vasih lazi :P
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Mnogo sam dobar! I pivo, molicu...
When A's vampire burns, the Pentex Subversion on the vampire burns [1.1.2]. It is sent to its owner's ash heap.

The contested Pentex Subversion will return in play during B's untap phase, if there is no other contesting Pentex Subversion at this point.
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Rat with a tool »

Pa zar to inace nismo radili tako?
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Jesmo, ali bila je debata u subotu, jer kontestovani pentexi jesu "out of play", ali su isto "on that vampire" ma kako to nelogicno zvucalo... :-D

Da mi neko daje pivo svaki put kada sam bio u pravu za vtes pravilo, bio bih debelo pijan svaki put kada bi se igrali :-D
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Knight »

Beer is on me this time :)
on totaly unrelated topic... AAA meeting is this sunday at 6pm :>
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Re: [VtES] Ovladavanje pravilima...

Post by Pendargon »

Anson, Anneke i Aleksandra ce doci, ako zahtevate :-D 8-) 8-)
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