Klub Zmaj

Well, i discussed such a thing with Rick, and when he left i continued the convo with Cira...

Rick had a nice idea, but here's what i had in mind:

Requirements:
0) GM. we can't do this without a GM.
1) players, lots of them, preferably different factions
2) once the players are assembled, they are divided by factions and Chief Players are elected

so, here's the deal - we have a global map, and our four "kingdoms". the game could be organized into "phases". During each phase, a Chief Player calls what their kingdom will be doing, such as attacking or reinforcing.

the point would be to have the entire kingdoms in a full-blown war, with the background story and the records kept by the GM. the campaign would be dynamic.
so, each player would "enter" as a certain warcaster, and would "donate" as much units as he wishes towards the "Kingdom Pool".

the Kingdom pool is the total unit pool, and i guess we could set a limit to 5000pts per kingdom? in any case, a player would have to be a certain warcaster. then, during the week, each kingdom would discuss what will they do in their next phase (or not), and the Chief Player would announce their next action when asked by the GM.

the point of this is to make the game even more interesting by introducing the "you play with what you get" factor amongst other things.

so, for instance, i'm Ad-Raza, and i enter my whole menoth army towards the menoth kingdom pool, and about 4 more players do so (for the menoths). then, we announce the chief menoth player, and he becomes the battle commander as well, OR the GM can be a chief player for all factions, but somehow i'm thinking that the chief player idea would work better.

so, we have entered a bunch of stuff, and amongst other things - 4 vilmons. well, the chief player tells Reznik to "go guard the east borders", and gives him a certain list, or an amount of troops that go with him. he tells each player where to go with what forces they have, and then he sets the rest of the pool across the kingdom (or fronts). when you attack, you play a normal game with what troops you have, and MAYBE with what's in the current vicinity to come and reinforce you. the battles might be of a scenario type (capture the bridge, break through the line, hold the line etc) but it could be casual combats as well. when the battle is resolved, the record alongside the battle report is sent to the GM for his purposes (determining the loses, making up a story etc) and the GM tells us what happens...

for instance, menoths attack Khador at "the eastern boarder", since Reznik is close by, he assists Ad-Raza with a joint attack on already weakened Sorcha's forces. since she has a task to guard a very important khador jack factory, she will hold her ground until her last breath, or until menoths are pushed back. in any case, the factory will not fall.
so, the GM might think of a scenario like this:
"menoths have to kill sorcha and preserve the factory at all costs. khador has to push back the menoths, they get reinforcements in X turns (depending on the state of the "global map"), or if that fails - blow up the factory; khador forces start the battle with 25% wounds"

so, if a wise player wishes to simply flee and blows up the factory right away, the Khador empire has been struck a significant blow to their warmachine ... machine, and as a result all their jacks cost +15 pts each and produce them at a slower rate. if the menoths manage to win without the factory blowing up, their could get a benefit of faster jack replenishment or more rapid recovery. in any case - you get the picture, it's all up to the GM.

so, while the war was raging on across the whole global map, we would be playing the significant battles, or simply the ones that involved warcasters. it could be assumed that sometimes a certain kingdom will try to flank an invasion, in which case we could play a "sneaky warcaster + his army VS whatever is in that teritory" battle, which, in most cases, the defender is destined to lose, but is still required because of the casualties the sneaky warcaster suffers.
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if you guys would be interested in something like this, we could work out the rules together, but for now i'm thinking something like this:
- a character is unique for the whole kingdom (so, if vilmon left to the east and you are on the west, you can't have him)
- field allowances work the same (meaning no more than 2 paladins per battle, altho you could get reinforced by additional ones)
- each kingdom would have a fixed "manufacturing power", it's the value of how much points to they rebuild each phase/cycle; the chief player calls what's to be rebuilt, and where will it be sent as reinforcements. so, if you have 750pts of manufacturing power, any casualties greater than 750pts will hurt you in the next cycle. it's up to the GM to make the map and place factories / camps / other key-things on the map, so that the chief players could come up with tactics to capture enemy facilities, thus increasing their manufacturing power and diminishing their enemy's.
- at the beginning of each cycle, the new state of the global map would be announced by the GM, and initiative for that cycle is rolled. the highest roll gets to act first - meaning that that faction gets their reinforcements before everyone else, and gets to push on with the attack etc before the enemy could regroup (a somewhat blitzkrieg tactics) or reinforce their fronts (maybe building bunkers and fortifications, which somewhat affects the global map) etc.

i just think this would be really fun, since you would get to play with what you got, and if you put all your eggs in one basket - your kingdom will suffer for it. if you lose too much troops - your kingdom will suffer for it. if you get bashed while attacking - it's up to the GM, but the casualties you suffered will hurt you in your next cycle. so, chief players would be kings, and the players would simply be the commanders on the field, fighting for what they've been told with what they've got and have been assigned.

EDIT: i just had another idea - there could even be some minor roleplaying involved, like diplomatic relations etc, So, a cygnar+menoth joint attack on the Cryx might not be such a bad move...

Great idea... But there is that, errr... thingie... Who is going to devote his life in next few months to be the GM?

@EDIT@ But it is a really great idea!

someone that knows the most Warmachine fluff around... Bojan or Shunka, or anyone that wants to take up that place...
it would have to be one of the "active" players, but i think it's for the best if the DM isn't in the campaign itself... altho that doesn't really prevent him from playing for any one of the factions...

maybe he could be the Chief player of the Mercs faction?

the thing about this campaign is that it could provide more playability than the standard campaigns, in which there are only 4 players and you bring any list into a mission, if you win - you might get a bonus of some kind, or not, but the fact that you have your Vilmon (for instance) across the whole kingdom is somewhat absurd... this incorporates wargaming, tactics and logistics into one big masterplan

i'm thinking Shunka would be more than well suited, because
a) he knows his way around the fluff
b) draws damn good, and could come up with a nice map
c) looks like a good GM
d) is trustworthy

soo... if we interest some players in this, we can start making up rules and other stuff we need, and we can begin any time the GM feels up to it. the reason why this is particulary good is that it lets you play with units you don't have, and practice with a certain caster under all conditions sure, you can't win every time. but you better be damned if you don't try

altho this should never become anything like tourney-play... consider it a series of friendly games, with an added depth to it for the purposes of fun... then again, it cannot turn into tourney play since you never know what you face, and the Chief Player might think that some units you want to field might be better suited for a more critical/important location

EDIT: also, i think we might "sweeten" the GM spot by having a 100 dins per caster entrance fee. that way the GM would get at least 400 dins, but if 3-4 casters join per faction, that's about 1k dins right there... not much, but still enough to cover the expenses of drawing maps etc... you're still doing it for the love of the game

if this fails, we can always go back to the original campaigns, which suck in comparison to this one* :P
* - if propertly orchestrated.

EDIT2: we could also use the Cynar Research Station / Khador Avalanche Cannon / any other special scenery, and revolve some objectives around them... or simply, use them in the campaign

EDIT3: another plot idea - altho this one is a bit more abstract - capturing a certain teritory or a part of a teritory might prevent a faction from fielding certain characters... i.e. cygnar captures a sacred temple of Menoth and menoth players are unable to field the Avatar of Menoth (it shuts down or something) until they reclaim it.
just bored and tossing ideas...

The idea is excellent but could I offer another option?
The campaigns written into Escalation and Apotheosis (or whatever it's called) don't suck (I don't believe you've actually read them). Now these typically take 4 players, one for each faction and can be played with any level of points.

Rather than designating a GM why not run the campaign with a pool of players for each chapter. So instead of 1 player for each faction we have several. Off the top of my head....

Cygnar
Stevo,
Dalibor
Rick (Highborn Covenant Mercs)
Ranko (soon)

Menoth
Momcilo
Dalibor
Nenad
You (soon)
DG (soon)

Cryx
Dule
Damjan
Nikica (soon)
Me (soon)

Khador
Bojan D.
Shunka
Srdjan
Vedran

As you've suggested each faction has a battle commander that assigns players to a mission. And of course if a player has 2 factions he cannot fight against himself in a match. Thus a game can be a 500 point 1 warcaster match upto a 3000 point 6 warcaster match if it could be ever organised and the time found. Let's say that Momcilo is the Menoth captain and has to organise a match with Khador. Bojan (Khador captain for example) puts Vedran forward and no-one else due to scheduling problems, then Momcilo could assign a less experienced player to the battle to make it more competitive. I mean no disrespect to Vedran but I think he saw yesterday that having a experienced player helping made a hell of a lot of difference. If Bojan suggests a 1000 point battle of which he is the only player - Moma can match that with a more experienced team of 2 players that each can bring 500 points. What this can do is allow teams of experienced and new players to take to the field and see how the tactics work.

Also there is more chance of games being completed as keener players can take up the slack if some players are not interested.

I say this as it has a small chance of actually happening.
Thoughts?

It's a good idea-the campaign. But, in my experience this things look great in theory, but in practice, due to several reasons miserably fail. The reasons:
- it's necessary to form a core of players with some experience and 500 pts of models (at least);
- someone to run the campaign and take it seriously;
- the participants should meet as scheduled (nearly impossible);
Now, having in mind the success of the League ( ), I suggest that the campaign should be postponed for a while.

First thing is forming a core of regular players, play some games,get experience, and then plan a campaign.
I say this from personal experience, that a campaign is very easy to start but very hard to finish.
Also , I recommend that new players should play some games first and then start planning campaigns...

My 2 shekels

true, both Rick's and Batory's suggestions make sense.

but from my experience, these kind of ideas are best when planned for a couple of months first.

I like the idea, but where are the hordes? Following the warmachine fluff, skorne is moving in the immoren, and trollbloods have a relative "close" connection with cygnar, as do Everblight with Cryx. We have some primarily Hordes players here (Miroslav first springs to mind, also DG) and they can field larger armies. And bring variety.
Also, the player base is a little "scattered", as, for instance, I am the only player of cryx with some substantial army and playing experience...
Other than that, love the idea!

for instance, I am the only player of cryx with some substantial army and playing experience...

That sounds like someone volunteering to organise all this to me.

Pendargon wrote:Also, the player base is a little "scattered", as, for instance, I am the only player of cryx with some substantial army and playing experience...
Other than that, love the idea!

I can see it...pictures in my mind...argh....
Damjan's day schedule for next few months...initiated bu Dule...

5:45h - Wake up, hail to the sun, 30 laps around Tashmajdan. Light stretching.
6:30h - Breakfast, only light food, full of omega 3.
6:45h - Warming up, practice in dice rolling named "how to get 7 on the six sided die", followed by one hour of "How to molest your opponent into submision", two hours of "Cough withouth your hand if you start loosing", and main phase lasting three hours "How to abuse rulebook so badly that it becomes mentaly scarred for the rest of it's bookish life".
12:45 - 13:00h Rest ("But while resting picture yourself as a winner. Think about campaign boy! We have to win!!!")
13:00h - Lunch - Some tunafish, again full of Omega 3
13:15h - Power training at the local gym
15:00h - Power gaming training - 2 hours of "How to break your opponent mentaly - stare at your opponent, tell him his army has no chance, make him feel miserable in your presence".
17:00h - One hour of "Molesting little kids makes you mentaly stronger"
18:00h - Six hours of reading the rules
24:00h - Sweet dreams Damjan, dream about us winning the campaign.

(No pun intended - this should be comical view of how Dule played in the past. If Dule or Damjan don't find it funny please remove this post).

Hahahaha... there are a couple of "pairs" (master and puppet) that could get this label :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, Damjan is no puppet, he just plays with crix...
Btw, for all of you who don't know Damjan, he is one of the most friendly players around. So, again, really, no pun intended...

I also think we should wait some more.
Let's see how the league turns out (I'm still planing to finish all my matches), what will happen with new and announced players, etc.
But I basicaly like Rick's idea.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I actually find it quite funny...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
except this part :

"Cough withouth your hand if you start loosing",

because, of course, I never loose.. 8) 8) 8) 8)

So the campaign idea is on hold?
I wish we could play long and winding campaign but we need a lot of expirience to balance it... Or we could play for sheer joy of playing and play some unbalanced campaign...
Could Rick assign some of his personel to run the campaign?

well, the campaign version of which i talked about is definately on hold... as far as Rick's suggestion goes - that one needs only 4 players and i guess we could edit it a little bit and start playing...

i personally wouldn't mind if the campaign was rather unbalanced at certain battles, since it just goes to show that sometimes - blitzkrieg actually works etc etc...

Could Rick assign some of his personel to run the campaign?

Cira doesn't play Warmachine and therefore is probably not the best choice - it needs someone with a desire to play to push it.

I'm a great advocate of the policy that 4 people should be able to organise themselves. If you ARE keen to do this then simply say so. Within the community we have just about every model available and trust me if someone turns up and sees a really interesting scenerio they'll want to get involved next time. It's human nature (and geek nature too). So sign up - set a date for the first four way battle that kicks off Escalation and let the momentum build up and ignore people that say "it'll never work". You don't need anyone's permission and if you enjoy the game then that is the reward for your time and effort. Pretty much everyone involved in this hobby has a large chunk of their disposable income invested in their miniatures - you might as well use the bloody things.

I've sent out an email to 3 fellow Hordes players to start the campaign in the back of Evolution. We'll start next September (no-one will be here over the summer I guess) and will go on until 2009 when Metamorphosis comes out and then who knows.

hmm... nice idea
WM guys - would you prefer the book campaign, or a totally custom one like the one i talked about in my first post?

If I was playing, I'd definitely want the book one.

Do the Escalation Campaign - all the hard work's done for you.

The first guys that do it will have to put in some work building terrain but it will then be easier for others. The first 4 way battle to start the campaign off involves a 8"x48" river running down the centre of the board and two 10"x8" bridges spanning them. At the very lowest level that's a blue piece of card and 2 small brown pieces of card. 10 mins set up and the whole show gets off the ground.

Shunka wrote:If I was playing, I'd definitely want the book one.

why? just 'because... (no reason)" or you don't like the idea of a dynamic, tactical campaign?

Shark wrote:why? just 'because... (no reason)" or you don't like the idea of a dynamic, tactical campaign?

Mostly because it stays completely true to the plot of the series. And I really like the fluff. Has a feeling to it. Almost reminiscent of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Certanly nothing we could organise ourselves would manage to follow up on the complexity of the story. I mean, even the official campaign doesn't match up to the fluff scale-wise, because even a four player 1000 points match is more like a small skirmish (lasting an hour at most) then an actual battle (not that's it's actualy possible to pull off a real battle on this scale). But it doesn't stray from the overall theme.

fair enough

altho my idea involved making up a part of the fluff based on the factions' decisions, while inheriting the other... but as a hardcore BT (that's BattleTech) fan, i do see your point. i'd still like to play such a campaign though...

i'd still like to play such a campaign though...

There's nothing stopping you except you. But don't expect just to 'throw it out there' and expect someone else to do it - if you want it you have to do it.

Even doing the campaign in the back of Escalation, which I think will take very little prep work, will still mean that someone has to organise 3 other people to turn up. I tried something similiar when the Starcraft boardgame first came out - and organised 5 people to turn up to play. Unfortunately the player that actually had the game (and was therefore the only VITAL participant) didn't show up and left the other 4 waiting without notification. This may provide a clue as to why I am saying that YOU need to organise and why I suspect certain players maybe reticent in offering to organise it for you.

fair enough (x2), i'll see what i can do about it after next week is over. i'll work out the rules, download some maps and make a new proposition until then - it's on hold.

i'll work out the rules, download some maps and make a new proposition

Maybe think about running the book one first for experience?
Is it necessary to do all that work? Book wise - I think Mind Uploader and/or Shunka would be keen with Khador, you're the Menoth man. All you need is a Cygnar and a Cryx player. Find a Cygnar player and I'll happily be Cryx, find a Cryx player and I'll happily be Cygnar. Why do things the hard way?

On a completely identical topic - did you know Greenet drinks stir sticks are flat wooden thingies? I bet an enterprising genius looking to run a campaign could pinch 20 or so, stick them together and make 2 cool looking bridges if he should ever have the reason to.

cryx here...

Khador here, but I have only 350pts. I can ask shunka to use his minis....

Khador here

cryx here

and I'll happily be Cygnar

you're the Menoth man

(In a Laurence Fishburne's voice) Coincidence or providence?

truth be told - i need something to keep me away from studies / studying

but this certainly looks like a merry campaign bunch

what do you say guys?

I'm in if I get minis from Shunka.

Mind Uploader wrote:I'm in if I get minis from Shunka.

We'll think of something.
When are your own troops coming up?

I need about 150 pts for 500pts game... And there is another solo I want to buy and paint so there will be 120pts need in minis... And in about one-one and a half month I will have full 600pts painted and ready...

oh don't worry about that as far as the campaign goes, i won't mind if people use unfinished stuff... heck, i'm not sure if a have 500 painted points... yup, lots of jacks waiting to be assembled and painted

Da ne otvaram novi thread. Vodio bih kampanju, skinuo sam sliku sa neta, isparcelisao granice drzava i pokrajina, svaka pokrajina ce dobiti svoj broj i kolicinu zlata (pts za kupovinu jedinica koje ucestvuju u igri) koju proizvodi po krugu.



Ideja je da svaki igrac vodi po jednog warcastera/warlocka, ali da postoje i "stojece" trupe, tj. cike koje cuvaju granicu ili napadaju neprijatelja bez podrske warcastera.
Napravicu jos za svaku frakciju tokene (stitove sa heraldikom odredjene frakcije) koji ce imati brojeve (npr. 1-10) i predstavljati prvu, drugu, trecu armiju. Warccasteri ce imati renown tj. kolicinu trupa koju ce moci da vode sa sobom (pocetni renown ce verovatno biti 350, ideja je da svaka pobeda donosi +25pts renown-a a svaki poraz minus isto toliko). Warcaster ce moci da vodi i jedinice koje mu ne pripadaju po renown-u (tipa vodi prvu armiju (svoj battlegroup) i trecu armiju (neke dodatne cike) ali nema sposobnost upravljanja jack-ovima koji nisu u njegovoj battlegrupi i nema command abiliti na jedinice van svoje grupe. Takodje, dok ne pogine cela jedinica/solo/warjack nema menjanja inicijelne liste (tipa sada vodim dva warjacka, a sutra gomilu pesadije-moze, ali ako prvo warjackovi postanu staro gvozdje). Pomeranje po mapi je po sledecem principu, javite mi na p.m. do nekog vremena (npr. nedelja u 12h uvece) gde ide koja armijska grupa, tipa armija 1 ide sa polja 12 na polje 16, armija 2 sa polja 3 na polje 5 itd... Pomeranje ce biti moguce samo na polja koja se dodiruju, ili na polja povezana strelicama (koje jos nisu unete) ako se radi o prelasku preko mora. Igra se jedan potez nedeljno, sa tim sto ako svi unesu svoje poteze ranije i odigraju bitke moze i brze da ide. Ja takodje vodim racuna o kolicini para i broju jedinica koje svako ima u svojim armijama. Ako se prijavi vise igraca iste frakcije to nije problem, generalno sve frakcije su ogranicene brojem castera na 4-7, posto su iskljucene epic varijante.

Cela prica je trenutno u fazi razrade, bice gotova posle ispitnog roka, ali me zanima da li bi ste igrali ovo i da li deluje zanimljivo, kao i ideje sta i kako bi voleli da se ovo obogati (vodite racuna da bude zabavno i jednostavno).
Pozz

@EDIT@
Trenutno zainteresovani:
Shark (???),
Pedja (Cygnar),
Pavlik Vladanson (Cygnar)
Sunka - delimicno zainteresovan (Khador, Merc patuljci, Trollbloods, Skorne, Circle).
Stefaz (Crix, mozda trolbladi)

Metni mene na stand-by... Nije da bas gorim od zelje da igram kampanju, ali ako se sakupi dovoljno ljudi red bi bio da podrzim trud. Mogu da igram kao Khador ili kao Merc, sto je mozda bolje jer su Mercovi versatilniji...
Evo recimo da ja kao Merc uskacem kad neki igrac ne moze da odigra partiju ili tako nesto.

Tvoji patuljci bi mogli da vode Rhul, posto si jedini igrac Rhul-a bio bi i vrhovni komandant
Znaci sav income koji Rhul dobije ti rasporedjujes, organizujes koje jedinice gde idu i tako dalje. Mada, ja sam mislio da napravim kampanju da bi ljudi uzivali i da zrtvujem slobodno vreme da igraci osete sta znaci kampanja, da se stvori navika igranja kampanja pa da eventualno i neko drugi vodi a ja da se igram. Ako ljudi masovno budu imali taj stav "Ajde de, doci cu da se igram da ti ne propadne trud", besmisleno je da vodim bilo sta.

Pa problem je u tome sto zaista nemam neku zelju da se igram neke dugacke kampanje, gde ishodi bitaka dovode do ovoga ili onoga... Pogotovo ne na tako velikoj skali kao sto je kompletan Iron Kingdoms, sve sa racunjem incoma i pomeranjem po mapi...
Daj smisli neku mini-kampanju, sa smislenom pricom, u 3-4 igraca, koja bi se dala odigrati za nedelju-dve dana, i to onda zvuci mnogo, mnogo primamljivije.

Ja sam za. Tim pre shto je ovo veoma slichno onome shto sam ja predlozhio pre jedno godinu dana.
Takodje predlazhem da se OBAVEZNO ubace Warjack bonds pravila u ovo. A ono shto bih voleo da vidim je da se igra sa donekle fluffy listama :D kreoss i exemplari, ad-raza sa skirmisherima i tako neshto

Raspoložen da učestvujem.

Ko se jos prijavi neka navede armiju sa kojom bi zeleo da igra i opcione armije koje poseduje da bi bilo sto vise razlicitih frakcija.
Gore, ispod mape upisujem ko se prijavio i sa kojom armijom...