Players guide to...

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Krunkova
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:33 pm
Location: Zagreb

Players guide to...

Post by Krunkova »

Evo idee:


Svaki od prisutnih ko misli da može doprinjeti zajednici neka napiše


Player's guide to (ime frakcije)

Znam da postoje te stvari na netu- no WM je srećom igra kod koje kreativnost dolazi do izražaja pa bi bilo lepo da svako od nas da neko svoje viđenje toga svega skupa. Uvek je korisno videti tko će šta napisati i zašto :mrgreen:

One article koji su dobri mogu da postanu sticky pa kad nekog nešto zanima ne mora da pita nego samo ode i upija nova znanja.
Što bi reko jedan moj profesor(bio i osto budala al imo je pravo što se toga tiče)

Pišite deco, pametni su pisali

:D



(trči po kartice da piše o Cygnaru)
Zivjeli smo u oblacima a onda se razvedrilo
User avatar
FGSerbia
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: Beograd
Contact:

Players guide to... Skorne

Post by FGSerbia »

Skorne (Mark 1 at least)

Playing Skorne remains one of the trickiest tasks in Warmachine & Hordes despite some great additions in Metamorphosis. Unlike Everblight and Orboros there are no ways to get rid of masses of infantry and no 'easy buttons' and even after Meta Skorne is still a melee force requiring denial and clever use of buffs in order to get into melee without losing half of their force to range and magic.
With Evolution Skorne sat at the bottom of the 4 Hordes - struggling against terrain and fast armies and they faired worse against Warmachine where even Mercenaries could confidently tie them in knots with shooting lists and knockdown. Since Meta they have received some auto-includes that give them a huge advantage over other Hordes and with these they are a match for any of the other 3. These auto-includes are the new Extoller Soulwards, the new Tyrant Commander mini-unit joining the Swamp Gobbers, Pain Givers and also I would say the Krea. The likelihood is that the new Tyrant Rhadiem is going to become our Drakhun; and whilst not an auto-include - it's as near as damn it.

The biggest problem still lies with playing Skorne at 500 points. This is due to the expensive cost of Heavy Warbeasts and the usual necessity to have several to maximize buffs. For example - using Morghoul. Morghoul offers nothing to troops so you need tough ones (Cetrati or Karax) that can survive without help from a Warlock. You also need Paingivers to manage the excess fury that all the warbeasts are going to generate. Then you do get your Titan Gladiator that can charge 11" with 2 POW 20 attacks BUT this is your only real threat and a very obvious one at that. In Tooth and Claw or Mangled Metal you might get that charge but there is little chance against a non-cooperative opponent at 500 points or above.

Following list represents a typical 500 point Morghoul list though a Rhinodon is probably preferable over the Gladiator. The Soulward gives ghost sight to the cannoneer which allows it to attack Alten Ashley or your opponents Swamp Gobbers early and then provide a later threat to opposing Warlocks or solos.
Master Tormentor Morghoul
Titan Cannoneer
Titan Gladiator
Basilisk Krea
Extoller Soulward
Cataphract Cetrati (5)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (4)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew
What is obvious though is that with Morghouls feat and the small number of Models this is a list that will only function against other Hordes armies and not against Warmachine.

To play an all round competitive 500 point list to my mind there is only 1 real option. This is Makeda. Hexeris and Zaal seem far more powerful as Warlocks and are but require too much support to really be effective against a wide range of opponents. Makeda can be effective against all opponents no matter whether they are dead or alive or steam driven or muscle powered.
Archdomina Makeda
Basilisk Krea
Cyclops Shaman
Ancestral Guardian
Extoller Soulward
Cataphract Arcuarii (4)
Praetorian Karax (8)
Venators (6)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew
This list is one with high survivability. Paingivers are not included due the beast-light nature of the list. The Karax have defender's ward cast on them and upkept and the Arcuarii have savagery upkept. This means that the karax are Def 14 (16 vs charges and ranged (Krea)) and ARM 21 (23 vs ranged (Krea)). This front line is very difficult for Hordes to deal with and even Cygnar shooty lists will find that they can't guarentee a kill against these bad boys. The swamp gobbers need to block line of sight to units like widowmakers, solos like Kell Bailoch or arc nodes wherever possible. The venators can travel with the krea behind the Karax with total impunity and with the extoller shoot over the Karax and ignore everything. The Arcuarii always have the ranged threat of hog tying or dragging units towards the line of karax but also can run and deliver a POW 12+3d6 hit with a threat range of 12.5" due to Savagery. Makeda upkeeps the 2 spells and casts carnage every round to help the charge. The Krea does his thing protecting troops and the Cyclops shaman is used to cast the Krea's animus at enemy front lines creating a mini-temporal barrier effect. With Fury 3 it is important to target low DEF units, but this can be great at denying the enemy the charge. The Ancestral Guardian will slowly power up for the end game and when the round of engagement kicks in Makeda pops her feat. Even if the Karax unit leader dies Makeda can order a Shield Wall and so when the Karax come back they are still ARM 21 in the round they can't activate. As long as the Ancestral Guardian lasts it should easily have a round with a full 5 soul tokens and the soulward can catch any overspill and give them to it in the following round if it survives.
The biggest problem with this list is dealing with fat opponents such as Heavy Warjacks. They need the Karax and Venators to combine attacks and this can lead to the list to not be able to deal with the opponents troops. To protect against this the Arcuarii and Cyclops Shaman are included but it still struggles with lists like the Brick and Cavalry and Warjack heavy lists. As infantrymachine is so popular this is not such a big problem but Darius and 2 centurions would have little to fear from this list.

Where Skorne suddenly come alive is at 750 points and 1000 points. At 750 points Hexeris, Zaal, eMakeda and eMorghoul all become very competitve. Hexeris and Zaal get to include all the extras that make them tick and the 2 new epics basically are allowed into the fray. Whilst both Hexeris and Zaal could be used at 500 points the problem I find is that you always feel you're leaving too much out. Both like a living unit, Zaal for souls and Hexeris for Death March, both need beasts to keep their fury topped up and both rely on units dying to get the most out of them. This need for disposable units is fine for Cryx and Menoth when the units cost next to nothing but even Praetorian Swordsmen are not that cheap and as neither Warlock really helps their units, many Skorne units are really too frail to last against Legion, Orboros or Warmachine shooty lists. At 750 pts two things happen; firstly an expendable unit is now not too big a burden for the points and secondly their is room to fit in minions. What both Hexeris and Zaal need to be added to their lists are Bone Grinder Gatherers. Both cast their spells early and upkeep them and then sit on 4 or so fury each round. They need to shed fury in order to run their beasts. Whilst they can cast animii having the option to cast attacking spells and boost them is also valuable to target key solos such as Vilmon, Alten Ashley and Victor Pendrake. Their attacking spells have a range of 10 but when it becomes 13" they are much more threatening.

Supreme Aptimus Zaal
Kovaas
Rhinodon
Titan Cannoneer
Basilisk Krea
Ancestral Guardian
Ancestral Guardian
Extoller Soulward
Immortals (8)
Praetorian Ferox (4)
Praetorian Karax (7)
Farrow Bone Grinders (4)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

This list allows Zaal a small ranged threat with the Cannoneer but also a cavalry threat with the Ferox and an alpha strike threat with the "Amuck" Rhinodon (fitting pain givers would also be nice if possible). The Ferox will have Hollow cast and upkept on them to make them fearless and also tough (they also can't be knocked down). The Ferox along with the Karax feed the Ancestal Guardian, whom under Zaal gets up the board much quicker. The Immortals hide behind the Karax in the push forwards and are used in the end game when Zaal pops his feat. The threat of a Kovass will mean that the Ancestral Guardians can be bolder and the krea still acts as a ranged protector for the advancing Karax. Varying this list is easy but it is obvious to see how difficult it would be to fit it into 500 points. Many threats would be lost, souls diificult to come by and the list would be much more one dimensional.
Hexeris can allow for some crazy lists and can have a massive amount of board control.

Lord Tyrant Hexeris
Titan Cannoneer
Basilisk Krea
Cyclops Savage
Agoniser
Extoller Soulward
Gudrun the Wanderer
Wrong Eye + Snapjaw
Bog Trog Ambushers (7)
Farrow Bone Grinders (4)
Gatormen Posse (5)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

This list really uses minions and for several reasons. Wrong Eye & Snapjaw can move up the board with no fear of magic or ranged attacks, targetting Zealots, Long Gunners or Gun Mages or arc nodes. A soul Slaved Cyclops Savage can literally run round the back of the opponents main forces to target soft important units and solos such as Skarlocks, JMCs and choirs. The Bog Trogs only need to wound units from the rear or side to allow Blood Crazed Gatormen to charge SPD+5 with all boosted attacks. Gudrun is just the nuisance that Gudrun is and Hexeris can enjoy relative safety with the Krea, the Agoniser and Swamp Gobbers and has a 17" threat range with deathbringer. Either the Bog Trogs or the Gatormen have death march on them. Once the 2 units of minions clash with the enemy Hexeris pops his feat and looks for chain killings to kick off. With Death Bringer spells flying about this is quite likely against infantrymachine. Again the necessity for this to be a 750 point list rather than a 500 point list is obvious. Getting rid of 250 points means the minion warlock, Gudrun and a full unit of something. This weakens the list significantly and eats into the denial and board control aspects that suit Hexeris' gameplay.

The two new epics in Meta both have massive potential. eMakeda seems the consumate attrition Warcaster and combined with Molik Karn she has the perfect beatstick. She remains a troop caster but now with Molik Karn has the tool to go through the heavy enemies and this is what she lacked at 500 points.

Supreme Archdomina Makeda
Molik Karn
Basilisk Krea
Cyclops Brute
Ancestral Guardian
Extoller Soulward
Void Spirit
Praetorian Karax (7)
Praetorian Swordsmen (8)
Praetorian Officer and Standard Bearer
Tyrant Commander and Standard Bearer
Venator Catapult Crew
Venators (7)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

This list allows for a pincer style attack. With her elite cadre and fortification and road to war the Praetorian swordsmen move up the board with alarming speed. They are followed by the Tyrant commander & Krea backed Karax that can literally run each round. The venators follow with the catapult crew providing long range artillery cover. Given the difficulty to kill units (their immunity to blast damage etc) they provide the ideal threat to keep opponents occupied whilst Makeda moves up the board with her beasts. As long as the opponent doesn't kill both Praetorian units completely in a single round Makeda's feat should still have an impact. Makedacan also use leash to get Molik Karn into the action quicker and the spell "Misery" and the Void Spirit to target fearful enemy units and make them flee. All in all she brings several tactics that can be used efectively to hurt oponents.

My favourite warlock has to be eMorghoul. Most Warlocks have had their feats toned down to only really last a turn but the Lord Assassin has a full on 2 turn (1 full round) feat. His blind ability means that for a turn Skorne pretty much hit everything and for the second turn they don't get hit in return. It is right up there with Sorscha's and Kreoss' feat. Whilst Morghoul doesn't have the same range as Kreoss there are many models immune to knockdown and only 1 that is immune to blindness and although Sorscha's seems more powerful with the Extoller Soulward giving Morghoul Ghost Sight he has line of sight to everything (thanks to Bojan D. for spotting that one). So while eMorghoul looks like a self contained assassin his feat means that he is also a great caster for turning defense into attack. If the enemy has the upper hand you can feat early and use an alpha strike game plan. The easiest example would be to topedo Tyrant Rhadiem into an opponent's warcaster. In the control phase Rhadiem moves 5" towards the enemy. Activate Morghoul cast ghost walk on Rhadiem and move forward to catch as many people as possible in the feat range. Throw Rhadiem with a warbeast and then charge him through all enemy troops into the opponents caster. On the charge he's MAT 10 and does POW 15+3d6 vs half armour vs -4 DEF. He's autohitting Grim Angus. Average damage of 18 points on a ARM 16 Caster and whilst it will probably be tranferred that will really hurt a warbeast too. This is only using Rhadiem - Ghost Walk could be cast on the entire Ferox Unit!! If he is within range then it is well worth getting to the opponent's caster with Morghoul by any means. Immunity to CMA's and no power attacks by blind models means that for the opponents turn he really has nothing to fear. He can block the ability to transfer and see if the opponent is willing to risk a free strike? eMorghoul lists rely on having threats. Even the Praetorian Catapult Crew can be worthwhile for threatening infantry and the round when you can use it to accurately hit something of value.

Lord Assassin Morghoul
Titan Cannoneer
Basilisk Drake
Basilisk Krea
Ancestral Guardian
Extoller Soulward
Tyrant Rhadiem
Paingiver Beast Handlers (6)
Praetorian Ferox (5)
Venators (9)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

This list looks like its missing a heavy hitter but it is hidden in the form of the Krea With Death Warrant and Enrage and studded the Krea will probably take out any other model in the game (including Khadorian Warjacks) with 5 boosted MAT 6, POW 16 attacks and a charge of 13". The drakes animus can be cast on the venators to clear models to open up charge lanes. All in all this list provides a number of threats and can be played very openly against defensive lists, Stealth and Perfect Balance means that Morghoul only need to bewary of certain Everblight beasts and certain Cygnar models. The Bane Knight spam and other similar lists would probably overrun this list but they tend to do that against Hordes in general anyway.

At 1000 points I admit I would like to see an eMorghoul and Hexeris list. Though swapping in eMagnus with 4 Renegades could easily have the same impact. The double feat of the two Skorne warlocks would be as terrifying as any combo out there I think. Neither require faction only models so the liberal use of minions and dedicated Skorne models could really mean a full on attacking list. This is a wonderful thing for Skorne who, until recently would have probably have been dominated in the larger point games by swarms or bricks.

Hope this helps anyone interested in starting Skorne and I hope that anyone thinking I've got something wrong or missed something will post.
User avatar
Krunkova
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:33 pm
Location: Zagreb

Re: Players guide to...

Post by Krunkova »

Great job!
Zivjeli smo u oblacima a onda se razvedrilo
Locked

Return to “Warmachine i Hordes”