POCETNICKA PITANJA

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Hypodermic
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

drugim recima ono sto beta kaze je jeidni nacin da on radi sweeping advance. I da, moze pedro lepo da pocne unutar razorback-a (zato i lepotan ima transport capacity 6 :D).
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Bas tako.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by d00m1n80r »

Nisam bas igrao nesto partija po 5toj ediciji pa imam jedno moze biti glupo pitanje. Recimo 3 marinca dobiju 3 pogotka plazmom i 4 bolterom. Protivnik rasporedi 3 plazme na jednog sirotana i po 2 boltera na druga 2?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Da, moze tako.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by ZergLord »

Ako dam Tyrantu Shadow in the Warp, da li to znaci da smo i ja i protivnik zasticeni od Perils of the Warp?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by bojan »

d00m1n80r wrote:Nisam bas igrao nesto partija po 5toj ediciji pa imam jedno moze biti glupo pitanje. Recimo 3 marinca dobiju 3 pogotka plazmom i 4 bolterom. Protivnik rasporedi 3 plazme na jednog sirotana i po 2 boltera na druga 2?
Pogotke dodeljujes po grupama modela - znaci ako su sva tri marinca ista onda svi ZAJEDNO bace 4 save-a od boltera i 3 cover-a od plasme (ako ga imaju).
Ako su pak ta tri marinca lascannon, plasmagun i recimo jedan obicnjak mozes sve tri rane od plazme dodeliti na obicnjaka, a po dva boltera na las i plas.
Nauk je - nekada se isplati pucati manje ali ubitacnije.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

ZergLord wrote:Ako dam Tyrantu Shadow in the Warp, da li to znaci da smo i ja i protivnik zasticeni od Perils of the Warp?
Da. Jednostavno perils of the warp ne postoje.

I beta je u pravu, iako alokacija ide onako, ipak ce sva trojca zaginuti od plazme. Da se jedan razlikuje po opremi, bila bi drugacija prica.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by d00m1n80r »

bojan wrote:Nauk je - nekada se isplati pucati manje ali ubitacnije.
Hypodermic wrote:I beta je u pravu, iako alokacija ide onako, ipak ce sva trojca zaginuti od plazme. Da se jedan razlikuje po opremi, bila bi drugacija prica.
Hvala lepo.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Golub87 »

Ako se modeli razlikuju, onda se rane rasporedjuju i saves se bacaju za svaki model zasebno.

Cemu onda pravila o mixed T i Sv?

To me bas buni u 5oj ed.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by PeraNekron »

Uvek se uzima vecinski toughness za probijanje. Mixed save (tj. razliciti saveovi u istom unitu) ima samo par jedinica u celoj igri. A zasebni saveovi su uvedeni da vise nema "nedodirljivih" modela u unitu. Primer iz 4te edicije : pucas u devastator squad sa 4 heavy weapona,5 obicna marinca i sergeant. Naneses 12 rana. On padne 4 savea. On skloni modele koji nisu heavy weaponi i sergeanti. Sad u petoj se radi ovako : 12 rana nanesenih, igrac dodeljuje rane sto vise jednako moguce. 4 u heavy weapone, 1 u sergeanta i 7 u obicne. Padne 2 savea za obicne, prodje za sergeanta, ali padne 2 za heavy weapone, pa on sklanja te sa heavy weaponima i obicne.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Je li se tokom Death and Glory napada moze koristiti bilo koje oruzje koje odabrani model ima, bez obzira na vrstu i to da li se model koji ga nosi kretao ili ne?

Evo primer;

U mom potezu ja pomerim svoj squad taktikalaca u kome se nalazi jedan missile launcher. Dakle posto se pomerao missile launcher ne moze da puca. Zamislimo da u sledecem protivnickom potezu protivnik tank-shockuje taj squad taktikalaca i ja probam da uradim death or glory. Mogu li ja da odaberem marinca sa ML-om i da on lepo dobije automatski hit sa krak missileom u vozilo, ili to sto se pomerao u mojoj prosloj movement fazi onemogucava koriscenje missile launchera u tu svrhu?

Takodje, ako se tokom death or glorya koristi meltagun, da li se i onda rola 2d6 za armor penetration (posto se meltagun, je l' te, nalazi blize od 6")?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Da, i da. Mozes koristiti bilo koje oruzje koje pravi jedan automatski pogodak. Znaci, potpuno je besmisleno tank shockovati bilo koju monstrous creaturu, bilo sta sa meltom ili melta bombom etc... jer je ravno samoubistvu :)
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Hypodermic wrote:Da, i da. Mozes koristiti bilo koje oruzje koje pravi jedan automatski pogodak. Znaci, potpuno je besmisleno tank shockovati bilo koju monstrous creaturu, bilo sta sa meltom ili melta bombom etc... jer je ravno samoubistvu :)
Fala, fala! :D




EDIT:
Evo jos jedna stvar koja me buni.

Je li ako specijalni karakter ima oruzje koje se racuna kao thunder hammer ili power fist, da li i on automatski onda napada na inicijativi 1, ili se to u slucaju specijalnog oruzja ne racuna? Recimo, Lysander ima Fist of Dorn koji je opisan kao master-crafted thunder hammer, ali sam Lysander ima inicijativu 5. Da li je to inicijativa 5 tu samo radi bezanja iz combata, ili on zaista napada sa tom inicijativom iako ima thunder hammer?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

8O
Covece, pa ako pise da je tunderhammer, onda i radi kao tunderhammer, to sto mu je neko u GW-u dao lepo ime ne znaci da mu je ukinuo da udara inicijativom 1. Svaka jedinica mora da ima kompletne statove, bez obzira na opremu i efekte na statove koje mu oprema pravi. Jedino army builder u stat line-u pokazuje i promene nastale usled opreme (PF i slicno).

Dakle, za svako to posebno oruzje, bitno je kao sta se racuna (conuts as a master crafted thunder hammer u tvom slucaju), jer kao takvo radi.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Giga
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Ko pita ne skita. ;)
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Megabaja »

Death and Glory napada
radi se o death OR glory napadu... valjda? :|

ne moze i jedno i drugo...
Pamti, pa vrati...

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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Megabaja wrote:
Death and Glory napada
radi se o death OR glory napadu... valjda? :|

ne moze i jedno i drugo...
Kako ne moze? Pogledaj junake Kosovskog boja. Otisli, svi izginuli, i sada su slavni za sva vremena. :D
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

E, evo jos nekoliko pocetnickih pitanja;

Nije mi jasno kako combat squad pravilo za marince funkcionise sa dedicated transportom. Recimo, imam taktikal squad od 10 ljudi koji imaju rhino za dedicated transport. Znam da za drop pod odlucujem hocu li ih combat squadovati tek kada stignu na bojiste, ali kako ako je u pitanju transport sa gusenicama?

Ja pozelim da ih combat squadujem. Kako ih ja onda deployujem? Je li 5-torica ostaju u rhinou, a 5-torica moraju da pocnu izvan rhinoa? Ili oba tima od po 5 pocinju unutar rhinoa, pa izlaze kada koji hoce (recimo, pocnu svi zajedno, pa onda rhino kod objektive izbaci petoricu, a drugu petoricu poveze dalje)? U rulebooku kaze da transport moze da vozi jedan infantry unit i/ili bilo koji broj independent karaktera, ali ne razumem bas kako se to odnosi na combat squadove i dedicated transport, posto je taj rhino ipak kupljen za ceo squad od njih 10, a ne za jedan od tih combat squadova.

Povezano pitanje; ako za 10 taktikalaca uzmem razorbacka za dedicated transport, kako se oni onda deployuju? Taktikalci ne mogu da stanu u razorbacka ako se ne combat squaduju, a ako ja to necu da uradim, je li moram da deployujem i razorback i taktikalce jedne pored drugih, ili mogu gde god hocu u okviru deployment zone?

Zatim, mogu li ja dedicated transporte da uzimam same za sebe? Recimo, mogu li da uzmem praznog razorbacka bez ikakvog squada koji bi poceo u njemu? Ovo je verovatno glupo pitanje, ali mi se cini nekako neverovatno da mogu da na primer za 400 poena uzmem 10 razorbackova sa tl-ovanim heavy bolterima, a da to nije regulisano nikakvim FOC slotom.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Ne biras da li combat squadujes kada udju na tablu, vec na pocetku deploymenta. A kako samo jedna jedinica moze da bude u transportu, odmah se na pocetku zna da li je u droppodu ili rhinou ili bilo cemu vec tacno 5 marinaca ili tacno 10 marinaca. Drugoh pet marinaca deployjujes kao regularnu jedinicu negde drugde u svojoj deployment zoni. Isto vazi i za transporte, ako je prazan, samo ga stavis kao jos jednu jedinicu gde god hoces u svoj deployment.
I dedicated trasnporti ne mogu da se uzmu sami. Moraju da se uzmu uz neku jeidnicu.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by PeraNekron »

Dedicated transport se uzima uz jedinicu, ali te nista ne sprecava da tu istu jedinicu stavis na tablu kao 3 zasebne celine : transport, i 2 combat squada. Izuzetak je drop pod. Kada drop pod udje u igru, unit od 10 unutra moze da se podeli na 2 combat squada prilikom iskrcavanja.
Mind Uploader wrote:... Kazem ja da je Pera isti Darth Vader, samo bez te moralne dubine...
Hypodermic wrote:Da nije robotech-a ne bih bio ovakakv kakav jesam!
Giga wrote:Realno, sasvim je logicno da mogu bez problema da ih bace sa par stotina metara i da budu prilicno sigurni da tom land raideru nece biti nista
igor wrote:jako je tesko uzimati puno poena jer se igra po knjizi.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Hvala na odgovorima ljudi, evo jos jedno pitanje koje me buni:

Power of the Machine Spirit. Okej znam da to u vezi kretanja omogucava da se uvek opali bar jedno oruzje, ali ono sto mi nije jasno je kako se to odnosi na smoke launcher?

Naime, smoke launcher u rulebooku kaze The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers, ali u C:SM-u za Power of the Machine Spirit kaze sledece: A land raider can fire one more weapon that would normally be permitted.

Meni se to licno cini kao da, i pored PotMS-a, land raider ne bi trebalo da moze da puca - posto ipak za smoke launchers kaze "may not fire any of its weapons". Ali na nekim drugim forumima ljudi kazu da land raider ipak moze da opali jedno oruzje i pored dima.

Kako se na to pravilo gleda kod nas?
A kako samo jedna jedinica moze da bude u transportu, odmah se na pocetku zna da li je u droppodu ili rhinou ili bilo cemu vec tacno 5 marinaca ili tacno 10 marinaca.
Ovaj, za droppodove to pravilo ne vazi, kao sto sawyer rece;

The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod. - strana 51, C:SM
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Koliko ja znam za tumacenje pravila, ako opalis smoke neces pucati nijednim oruzjem. Machine spirit ti omogucava da pucas jedno dodatno oruzje kada inace ne bi mogao da pucas. Doduse, mozda gresim, iz prostog razloga sto niko do sada nije koristio smoke na LR-u jer pre pete edicije nije bilo svrhe :)
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by opsidiannight »

"Any" podrazumeva i to dodatno pucanje. Stoga, close but no bananas.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

opsidiannight wrote:"Any" podrazumeva i to dodatno pucanje. Stoga, close but no bananas.
Tako sam i mislio, 'fala. :D
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Dexter »

Gledaj na to ovako: smoke launchere pustas da bi SAKRIO svoje vozilo da ti ga teze pogode. Kako mislis da ga sakrijes ako se iz oblaka dima prolome dva twin-linked lascannon-a?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by orome pancevo »

Dexter wrote:Gledaj na to ovako: smoke launchere pustas da bi SAKRIO svoje vozilo da ti ga teze pogode. Kako mislis da ga sakrijes ako se iz oblaka dima prolome dva twin-linked lascannon-a?
Mozda imaju prigusivace!? :mrgreen:
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Dexter »

Ali kako prigusiti dva laserska zraka? :lol:
Pitanje u vezi drop poda - kada padne, ne pruza cover save, ali kada je unisteno putem vehicle destroyed?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Pruza cover save. Uvek. I kada padne. Jednostavno WYSIWYG tako da ako LoS ide tako da isti zaklanja dovoljno modela, pruza cover save.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Megabaja »

nepriguseni laskenon se cuje pćuu, pćuuu - a priguseni zzzz, zzzzz...
Pamti, pa vrati...

Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Giga »

Megabaja wrote:nepriguseni laskenon se cuje pćuu, pćuuu - a priguseni zzzz, zzzzz...
Au al ti je dosadno! :lol:
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by ZergLord »

Da li se Tyrant i Tyrant Guard racunaju kao 2 kill poena?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Hypodermic »

Da. Jedan za tyranta drugi za gardu.
Pendargon wrote:...po toj logici, mogao bih da isecem lepih 10 kockastih komada stiropora, na devet zalepim bolter i bolt pistolj, i granate, i mali nozic, jednom zalepim powerfist da viri, a na jednog zakacim lasscannon, i imam savrsenu jedinicu chaos space marinaca....
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Stavrogin »

Pitanje:
Da li su Necron Ctan, NIghtbringer i Deceiver specijalni karakteri?
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Mrzimsvee »

Da.
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
Emperor of mankind – on the Creation of the Space Marines.

"By reason. By truth. I have learned how your hearts and minds function. With that lore, I brought peace to this culture."
"--At the cost of freedom."
"Peace reigns, as I reign. I wouldn't expect your to understand. You are a little man, with little dreams."
"--You've ushered in the peace of the graveyard. Peace, at the cost of surrendering all choice, all freedom. The city lies in terror, forced to live by the standards you place upon our shoulder."
"Yes...yes."
"--But every sin...is punished, but punished by death, no matter the crime. No matter the scale of the sin. The people of the city live in silence, lest a single word earn them death for speaking out against you."
"Yes. Listen. Listen to the sound of raw silence. Is it not serene?"
- Night Haunter addressing a gathering of Nostraman nobles

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."
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Stavrogin
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Stavrogin »

hvala
Olsianon
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Olsianon »

COVER SAVE situacije i zavrzlame...
Jedinica(model) je racimo u Sumici i ima cover 4+, jedinica je pored sume na cistom nema CS, jedinica je iza sumice, ali je vidis izmedju drveca sasvim fino da opalis sa pucama po istoj, po knjizi ta jedinica ima CS samo neznam koliki tacno CS 4+ ili 5+?
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PeraNekron
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by PeraNekron »

Zavisi od tacne pozicije vecine modela, i true LOS jedinice koja puca. Na igracima je da se dogovore koliki ima cover, ali najverovatnije to uvek bude 4+.
Mind Uploader wrote:... Kazem ja da je Pera isti Darth Vader, samo bez te moralne dubine...
Hypodermic wrote:Da nije robotech-a ne bih bio ovakakv kakav jesam!
Giga wrote:Realno, sasvim je logicno da mogu bez problema da ih bace sa par stotina metara i da budu prilicno sigurni da tom land raideru nece biti nista
igor wrote:jako je tesko uzimati puno poena jer se igra po knjizi.
Olsianon
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by Olsianon »

ok recimo imas jedinicu od 10 modela 50% je u sumici i oni imaju CS 4+, manje od 50% jednostavno nemaju cs.
Demon Princevi, Dreke, Carnifexi i sl bratija nagaze parce terena gde je sumica da li im se racuna da su coveru?
I ako ih vidis sasvim cisto pri tome!
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PeraNekron
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by PeraNekron »

Nikako. Monstrous creaturi i vozila/walkeri MORAJU imati vidljivo sakrivenih 50% svog tela. Ne racunamo krila i slican dekor. Daemon princ iza drveta, ako je drvo dovoljno veliko, se racuna kao da je u coveru. Rhino bi recimo morao da se nekako namesti da mu ne vidis barem pola. Tako da, ako nagazis, nisi nista dobio, moras biti 50% pokriven po pitanju true LOSa. Svaka cast onome ko uspe da sakrije 50% land raidera. Meni uspelo jednom sa monolithom :wink:
Mind Uploader wrote:... Kazem ja da je Pera isti Darth Vader, samo bez te moralne dubine...
Hypodermic wrote:Da nije robotech-a ne bih bio ovakakv kakav jesam!
Giga wrote:Realno, sasvim je logicno da mogu bez problema da ih bace sa par stotina metara i da budu prilicno sigurni da tom land raideru nece biti nista
igor wrote:jako je tesko uzimati puno poena jer se igra po knjizi.
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opsidiannight
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Re: POCETNICKA PITANJA

Post by opsidiannight »

Da pogadjam, sakrio si monolit iza drugog monolita? :lol: 8)
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