WWII ?

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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

bojan wrote:PIAT Probojnosti oko 11cm celika - dovoljno da skenja svaki tenk kojji bi bio pogodjen sa strane.
Kao sto ti rece SA STRANE jedino mozes da se nadas da ces nesto da uradis. Kao sto svi znamo Tenkovi a i ostala vozila, kada se postavljaju na tablu sigurno se nece postaviti bocno okrenute prema neprijateljskim polozajima.
bojan wrote: Ti tenkovi jesu bili po nekim stvarima dobri, ali ne kao sto ih ti i "German Lover Society" prikazujete.
Za tvoju informaciju imam i Americke tenkove pa sada mozes da rastes i cvetas od ponosa i velicine.
Cinjenica je da:

1) Nemacki tenkovi su bili problem na svim frontovima. NAravno Nasli su im leka ali to je obicno trajalo neko vreme.

2) Komplikovane izrade nisu bili ni laki za proizvodnju ni za odrzavanje ali nakon svakog pojavljivanja nekog novog Nemackog tenka na ratistu odredjeno vreme su bili superiorni.

3) Dizajn i maskiranje odnosno farbanje doticnih je bilo daleko ispred vremena i ostalih armija iz tog perioda a neke armije i danas nemaju tako "lepe i sarene" tenkove.

4) Cinjenice da je nesto bolje, nikako ne pokazuje da ja to nesto slepo volim i izdvajam iz celokupne slike poganih i gadnih nazi manijaka i fanatika. Mogu da im se divim na organiziranosti i izgledu paradnih uniformi ili npr. tenkova ali njihova ideologija mi je veoma odvratna.

5) Sto se tice "bacanja" 88-ica iz aviona, pretpostavljao sam da znas da su nemci koristili jedrilice za transport vecih stvari. Osim toga imali su skoro u svakom pogledu i u svim rodovima mnogo napredniju tehniku i organizaciju.

6) kao sto rece Bojan da nemci nikada nisu imali sve popunjeno, pa stoga mene cudi kako neko kaze da je realnije da sve jedinice budu u punom sastavu a nije realno da se koristi sta ima raspolozivo.
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

E da, mislim da je pregeldnije bez citata

1. a) Ma ne bih se bas slozio sa ovim, u pravilima OO PIAT nije ni malo bezazlen, doduse da ga zeza mali domet zeza ga. Doduse ok je sto moze da ispaljuje i AT rakete i granate

b) sto se tice realnosti imas brdo svedocanstava iz WWII gde se navodi da su sa PIAT uspesno unistavani i Panteri i Tigrovi cak i od strane civila a ne samo obucenih vojnika.

2. Kao sto sam i naveo citao sam samo osnovnu knjigu i na osnovu nje dajem i komentare. Mega liste nisu po mom ukusu (ali kao sto smo zakljucili ukusi i stavovi su individualni) a ne vidim ama bas nikakvu osnovu za tvrdnju da su mega liste najrealniji deo? Pa jel iole realno da kazes "moja lista ima 10 haubica koje nemaju nikakva vozila niti imaju forward-observere (koji se voze u tom komandnom vozilu) ali gadjaju i direktno i indirektno i nekako su dosla tu gde jesu" :wink:
A ako cemo o realnosti pesadija je ili motorizovana ili mehanizovana (oklopna) (kamioni ili AP transporteri) a takodje pri kreiranju liste za FoW mozes da uzmes understrenght platoon koji ima 2 pesadijske desetine ili kompletan sa 4. Ovo pravilo ujedno i daje retku priliku za nabudzeniju listu za FoW buduci da to ljudi koriste da bi napakovali vise recimo minobacaca (1 po vodu) ali nalazi opravdanje u tome da usled gubitaka vod nije 100% popunjen.

3. Odlicno

4. Primer je los buduci da 88 nisu mogle da se koriste u airborne operacijama i postoji tacno navedeno sta padobranci mogu da imaju od support oruzja. A sto se tice sastava baterije kao sto rekosmo i u FoW mozes da uzmes 1/2 voda ili baterije ili 3/4 ili 100% vod ili bateriju. Ali ne shvatam logiku da pesadija mora da ima prevoz (ako je motorizovana/mehanizovana) a artiljerija kojoj je to mnogo vise potrebno (municija, vuca, prevoz ljudstva) ne mora.

5. A sta cemo ako je recimo rusu (rece da ih ima u dodatnim knjigama) jedina komparativna prednost u odnosu na svabe, recimo hrpa jeftine i ludo hrabre pesadije? I ako mu je taktika da tvojih 8 jedinica preplavi pesadijom? Malo je bezveze reci coveku da smara ako pokusava da koristi svoje prednosti... Uostalom poenta mog prethodnog kometnara je da se ja ne bih usudio da prvu partiju igram u 15k poena osim ako ne bih za "sve pare" uzeo 6 pantera, elefanta i 88 (da ne bih smarao) ali to se onda i ne razlikuju mnogo od prve WH40k partije sa jednim marinskim skvodom, zar ne?

6. Stvarno se izvinjavam ako si razumeo da tvoje postove smatram "praznim" buduci da sam jasno rekao da
Igor ima najvise iskustva u ovome pa bi mozda mogao da prokomentarise ali moje je misljenje da je sistem namenjen za manje skirmish bitke i da u takve borbe mogu da budu urnebesno zanimljive prvenstveno zbog sistema inicijative.
Sto se tice opaske o konstruktivnosti mislio sam na komentare o FoW u svetlu poredjenja sa OO, buduci da koliko sam shvatio ni ti nisi igrao FoW, doduse ne znam da li si imao prilike da procitas pravila. Uzgred mogu da se skinu i FoW fajlovi za Army Builder cisto radi pregelda jedinica.

O lepoti, figurama itd itd "De gustibus non est disputandumo" (ovo cisto da pokazem da i u gimnaziji covek nauci ponesto :roll: ).

Licno od WWII igre ocekujem realnost koja po meni nije izvodjenje kompletno "tigrovske" vojske, buduci da nije istorijski opravdano a ako pravila omogucuju da takva lista dominira onda tu nesto debelo skripi sa pravilima. Takodje gledam da pobegnem od GW sindroma da svaka lista ima kontralistu i gde je sve manje vazno "kako igras" u odnosu na ono "sa cime igras". Svi komentari o OO i FoW su dati na osnovu citanja osnovnih knjiga (onakvih kakve jesu) i u svetlu mojih ocekivanja realne, WWII igre.

U svakom slucaju moja prijava za pokaznu partiju OO je i dalje vise nego validna pa kad ti i drustvo budete u mogucnosti.... a samo nek je nama hleba i igara pa probacemo i OO i FoW
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Evo opet bez citata :lol:
1) PIAT je imao problem sa pripremanjem za dejstvo jer je koristio oprugu za izbacivanje granate a ispostavilo se da nije bas svaki vojnik moga lako i brzo da ga "nategne" i pripremi. Sto se tice onoga da moze da izbacuje obe vrste granata to je stvarno prednost mada je Bazooka bila daleko bolje oruzje od PIAT-a.

2) Primera unistavanja tenkova uz pomoc cak i prirucnih sredstava je bilo mnogo, mada sve zavisi od situacije. Ne osporavam ranjivost Tigrova ili Pantera jer svi znamo da su se neki i sami od sebe kvarili. Ukoliko sve to zanemarimo u igri onda je zaista tesko da neko sa Piatom moze da nudi Tigru.

3) Realnost Vs. Mega Liste. Izvinjavam se zbog moguceg nesporazuma ali realnost je da je bilo slucajeva da je negde jedan King Tigar bio sve sto su imali od tenkova protiv gomile T34. Hteo sam samo da kazem da je bolje ako imas mogucnost (kao u OO) da namestis sebi kompletnu armiju po svojoj zelji pa makar ona bila i tako megalomanska kao igaranje samo sa Tigorvima

4) O upotrebi 88-mice kod padobranaca i desantnih jedinica zaista nemam informacija osim onoga sto pise u knjizi Paratrooper Attack za OO.
Jedino sto znam i sto sam video fotografije to su ogromne jedrilice i transportni avioni koje su koristili za desantne trupe.

5)Rusi, po OO imaju osim mogucnosti za gomile pesadije takodje imaju mogucnost za gomile tenkova otprilike u tenkovskoj jedinici imaju oko 50-100% vise tenkova nego Nemci a i tenkovi su Ruski nesto jeftiniji. Velike mrcine popout KV i ISU isl. imaju i naravno razbijaju sa time sve kao sto sas druge strane to iso imaju i Nemci (Elefant, King TIgar...) Pravi odnos pesadije, vozila i tenkova i naravno broja poena u koji se igra mec, je jako bitan za igranje. Ja imam 15K nemaca i skoro isto toliko Amerikanaca (jos su u izgranji). Nisam siguran da cu igrati sa vise od 5K ikada ali sam siguran u jedno: Po pravilima OO mozes da imas samo jednu osnovnu tenkovsku jedinicu od max 5 tenkova. Ako je ta jedinica nor sa Tigrovima onda mozes da joj dodas i nesto KingTigrova i to je to. Ako namestis da ti je osnovna jedinica Panterski vod onda im mozes dodati Tigrove ...

6) Trebali bi namestiti armije za OO & FOW jer nije velika razlika u broju vozila i figura. Rado bi probao FOW i takodje rado bih pokazao OO. Mozemo se dogovoriti da dodjes kod nas u ZR da oprobas OO, ja cu naravno prethodno pripermiti armije za obojicu (tebi 100 Engleza a meni jedan tigar :lol: ) Inace samo da se zna ja nemam niti jednog Tigra ili King Tigra u armiji :!: Problem za FOW je nedostatak nekih od transportnih vozila koje nigde nisam nasao u 1:72 razmeri. U OO je tako uradjena igra, da smo uvek zadivljeni sa desavanjima bez obzira kako se odvijalo i u ciju korist.
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Post by lord warrior »

2) Komplikovane izrade nisu bili ni laki za proizvodnju ni za odrzavanje ali nakon svakog pojavljivanja nekog novog Nemackog tenka na ratistu odredjeno vreme su bili superiorni
Ako izuzmemo izvesne modele iz '45te koji nisu imali motor za okretanje kupole...
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

1. slazem se mada bih radje rekao da je bazuka "sofisticiranije" sto je i ok buduci da je i dizajnirano dosta kasnije

2. cekaj zar nije po pravilima 8+ hit za Piat odnosno +1 ako ga gadja s ledja?

3. verovatno se nismo razumeli. S jedne tacke (nazovimo je tenkovska) jeste bilo primera par Tigrova vs brdo T34 ali nikada nije bilo primera da se sukobljavaju samo tenkovi. Znaci uvek je tu bilo i pesadije (sa AT oruzjem) i artiljerije. Pod nerealnoscu sam podrazumevao cisto "tenkovsku" opciju i nerealnost takve liste (sto su i nemci i rusi a bogami i izraelci iskusili na svojoj kozi).

4. nazalost nisu mogli da prevoze 88, na stranu sto su svabe posle krita padobranske jedinice koristile kao pesadiju (izuzimajuci manje akcije).

6. Pa posto vi iz ZR (koliko sam razumeo) aktivno deljete i BFG mozda bilo lepo da organizujte nesto na tom osnovu a da ukljucite i pokaznu partiju OO.... samo da na vreme javite :wink:
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Skobra wrote: 2. cekaj zar nije po pravilima 8+ hit za Piat odnosno +1 ako ga gadja s ledja?
NE To je po starim pravilima, sada osim te tablice imas modifikacije za armor. Prime za PIAT bi bio sledeci:
Pogadja na 8 ali Tigar ima Heavy armor sto daje +2 pa ga od napred pogadjas na 10, KingTigar ima extra heavy armor (+3) od napred sto ce reci da je sansa nikakva od napred vec bocno na 10 ili od nazad na 9. Osim tih izmena ima jos mnogo cega izmenjen pa sam zato rekao da je prva knjiga neupotrebljiva.
Skobra wrote:3. verovatno se nismo razumeli....

Da nismo se razumeli, mada sam siguran da sam cuo za slucaj da je na Ruskom frontu bio susret 2 Tigra i 20-tak T34 gde su Tigrovi unistili 14 ruskih tenkova pre nego sto su morali da beze :lol: Inace Izraelci imaju transportne tenkove (Merkava) pa im je uvek i pesadija pri ruci :lol: tj. pri tenku

4. Posto sam rekao da nemam informacije za Nemacke Padobrance onda prihvatam to sto si rekao kao apsolutnu istinu.

6. Gotik nismo skoro igrali, ovde povremeno uhvati neki napad ludila "clanove kluba" , pa se igramo samo odredjene igre po mesec ili dva. Trenutno je interesantan 40K i Pirates 8) a Gotik nije igran mesecima.... OO skoro isto toliko vremena, mada pre pola sata sam dobio iz Engleske M20 i 4 Shermana i jednog Pantera sto znaci da je vreme za zazivljavanje OO ...
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Nova knjiga za Operation Overlord bice besplatna u .PDF formatu.
Operation Overlord 2 za sada je skoro gotov i imat ce oko 200 stranica. Krajem godine se ocekuje i stampanje "papirne" verzije.
Vest je objavljena na TMP sajtu.
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=77406
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Post by makifromtoronto »

********
Last edited by makifromtoronto on Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Pozdrav svima...
Druga edicija je izasla ali kao PDF za sada. Najlepsa vest je dace biti slobodna za download u utorak ( 29.08. ). Italijanska verzija koja je trenutno aktuelna je promenjena i malo prosirena. Vise se ne zove Operation Overlord vec je u pitanju Operation WW2 :-) Pojednostavljene su tablice za teska oruzja i sada postoji samo jedna tablica u kojoj se sada gleda prvi naredni kalibar oruzja ako nema tacno taj kalibar. Primer je top od 75mm ili 76mm koji se sada gleda u tablici pod 80mm, Tigorvi imaju sada 99mm a ne 88mm isl. na prvi pogled je u pitnju glupost ali detaljnijim usporedjivanjem starih i novih tablica vidi se da je vecinom sve kao i ranije. U karakteristikama vozila stoje ispravni kalibri oruzja pa sve izgleda na svom mestu. Nekoliko izmena ima u koncepciji armija ako si imao ranije napravljenu armiju ali odstupanja nisu prevelika. To se isto odnosi i na "cenu" kostanja pojedinih vozila. Karte za naredbe su promenjene (oko 5-6 karata je izmenjeno) itd. Sto se tice farbanja figura preporucujem da koristis Vallejo boje (ISKLJUCIVO). Naravno potrebne su ti tacno odredjene boje za odredjene delove uniforme. Detalje mogu ovde napisati a za nestrpljive preporucujem da pogledaju na net-u. Najbolje mesto je zvanicni sajt za Flames Of War igru gde prodaju i komplete boja (Vallejo) za odredjene armije. Ja sam te boje kupovao pojedinacno jer mi nije bilo potrebno bas sve iz tih kompleta. Za detaje pitajte...
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makifromtoronto
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Post by makifromtoronto »

Ok za boje hvala jer sam video da dosta ljudi na netu hvali tamiya boje,ali ok vallejo ako ti kazes tako.......da shibni linak za drugu ediciju ovde kada se pojavi na netu..............
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Nije u pitanju kvalitet koliko nijansa boje koju mozes kupiti. Ako potrazis komplet boja za npr. Amerikance (Flames OF War) videces da ti nece trebati vise od 3 boje a na pozadini kutije je i slika sa tacno napisanim siframa vallejo boja pa tako kupis samo to sto ti treba. Flames Of War je naj popularnija igra za WWII pa tako na njihovom sajtu mozes pronaci najvise informacija o farbanju. Evo ti jedna od slika sa njihovog sajta.
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makifromtoronto
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Post by makifromtoronto »

EDIT: OPERATION WW II IS LIVE:)),napravise ga i sajt sada ima funkicje koje ce valjda da doprinesu da ovo zazivi malo vise
http://www.alzozero.it/eng/index.html
promenili su od juce i jos sam se smorio kako lose rade update sajta

yay samo da nadjem neke ljude za to ovde :))



mada
http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=98
ovde ima i code za vallejo i njen counterpart kod tamiy-e
ali tnx za tip,bedak zanimljiv je flames of war ali mi se ti modeli po tim cenama ne svidjaju ni malo,vise zbog izgleda
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

U onoj tablici boja je greska kod ruskih boja za uniformu !
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Lepo se vidi da im uniforma nije Vallejo 830 kao kod Nemaca vec 880 !!!
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makifromtoronto
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Post by makifromtoronto »

carzki bacam se na citanje novih pravila posle sljake :) ^^

pazario sam malopre Ravellov set Tigar & peshadija
i Roden Sd.Kfz.234/2 'Puma' kit :) ) puma,obozavam pume
Jedva cekam da mi stigne paket

"Sd.Kfz.234/2 Puma production ran into difficulties and only a rather small number of them was produced, 101. Nevertheless they did fight during WWII, with the panzer divisions in Normandy. This impressive car had not realized its full capability, but its combat performance showed exciting potential. After tests in the British and USA ordnance yards it was judged by the Allies to be the best armored car of the WWII era. "

word


btw da video sam da se povela neka prica oko tigrova i t34 tako da evo linka i citata iz clanka

http://www.dasreich.ca/kursk.html

"
On October 29th, just outside of Khodorov on the western bank of the Dnjepr River, some 75 km SE of Kiev, 20 T-34's pierced Das Reich's defense line after 5 a.m.. Quickly advancing to this dangerous breakthrough, Hscha. Willy Simke in Pz. IV #531 and his third platoon, 5th Pz. Co., fired upon the T-34's from 20 to 30 meters, and knocked out 17 of them. In the same area on Nov. 1 the Russians tried to secure their bridgehead over the Dnjepr. Stubaf. Tychsen's IInd Pz. Abt. was on the right flank of Das Reich's position. When enemy tanks and infantry attempted to outflank his unit, Tychsen led his panzer HQ stab and an engineer platoon to the attack around Hill 188. Three T-34's appeared over a rise: Tychsen's BeflPz.III knocked out two, then his swiftly advancing force destroyed 6 more and drove off the rest. That same day in Tiger S11, Hsha. Hans Soretz, I Zug leader 8/Pz.Rgt. DR, scored the 2000th armor kill for the division in 1943. Its panzer regiment had accounted for some 1100 of these, to its own losses of over 250 tanks. On the 11th in Slavia, Tigers shot up more than a dozen Russian tanks. "

naravno nemojmo zaboraviti na http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_boc.asp
Michael Whittmana i Villers-Bocage gde je sam sastavio 21 tenk (cromwelle i firefly-e) i nekolicinu vozila

Sa druge strane i rusi su imali svog Whittmana,tokom perioda kada su nemacki tenkovi bili ............inferiorni prema KV-1

"One of the KV's managed to reach the only supply route of the German task force located in the northern bridgehead, and blocked it for several days. The first unsuspecting trucks to arrive with supplies were immediately shot afire by the tank. There were practically no means of eliminating the monster. It was impossible to bypass it because of the swampy surrounding terrain. Neither supplies nor ammunition could be brought up. The severely wounded could not be moved to the hospital for the necessary operations, so they died. The attempt to put the tank out of actions with the 50 mm antitank gun battery, which had just been introduced at the time, at a range of 500 yards ended with heavy losses to crews and equipment of the battery. The tank remained undamaged in spite of the fact that, as was later determined, it got 14 direct hits. These merely produced blue spots on its armor.

When a camouflaged 88 was brought up, the tank calmly permitted it to put into position at a distance of 700 yards, and then smashed it and its crew before it was even ready to fire.

The attempt of engineers to blow it up at night likewise proved abortive. To be sure, the engineers managed to get to the tank after midnight, and laid the prescribed demolition charge under the caterpillar tracks. The charge went off according to plan, but was insufficient for the oversized tracks. Pieces were broken off the tracks, but the tank remained mobile and continued to molest the rear of the front and to block all supplies. At first it received supplies at night from the scattered Russians groups and civilians, but the Germans later prevented this procedure by blocking off the surrounding area. However, even this isolation did not induce it to give up its favorable position.

It finally became the victim of a German ruse. Fifty tanks were ordered to feign an attack from three sides and to fire on it so as to draw all of its attention in those directions. Under the protection of this feint it was possible to set up and camouflage another 88 mm Flak to the rear of the tank, so that this time it actually was able to fire. Of the 12 direct hits scored by this medium gun, 3 pierced the tank and destroyed it."----carski :) ImageFFS!!! :D:P

"On 19 August 1941, a platoon of four KV-1s of the 1st Tank Division succesfully ambushed a German tank column advancing near the Voiskovitsy collective farm near Leningrad. The platoon leader, Sr. Lt. Zinoviy Kolobanov, knocked out the two lead tanks in the column. The following tanks apparently did not relize what had happened and continued to move forward. Kolobanov's platoon moved into the midst of German battalion and, in the melee that followed, Kolobanov destroyed 22 German tanks, ramming at least one in the process. His tank was hit 135(!) times during the firefight. The other three KVs destroyed a total of 16 other tanks. Kolobanov's feat made him the second highest ranking Soviet tank ace of the war."
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makifromtoronto
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Post by makifromtoronto »

Kul stigose tigar,ekipa, i puma sada pitanje posto su ovi delovi sitni i sve ..............najbolje je da se undercoat radi dok su na sprue al tako?

Revell nemacka pesadija je kul odradjena,posebno oficir i sve poze deluju jako realno sto se ne bi moglo reci za sve ostale proizvodjace,kakvi su italeri setovi?
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meloras
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Post by meloras »

Koja je razmera FoW figura?Na sajtu mi se po slikama cini da je nesto zlokobno malo.Ja sad radim amere u 1/72, a nasao sam neka lepa pravila po 3ediciji 40k.
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makifromtoronto
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Post by makifromtoronto »

jako su male 15 mm za fow,dok je 1/72 20 mm ...........5 mm je dosta u detaljima a i figure za 1/72 su obicno radjene hard core detaljno......................probaj svakako Operation World War II sa ovog linka sto smo postovali...............dzabe je a jako je zanimljiv sistem..........
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Razlika izmedju figura za FOW i 1:72 je ogromna. Par milimetara visine ne zvuci mnogo ali u odnosu na 15mm figure, 20mm figura za 1/3 veca. Razlika u ceni figura je takodje veoma upecatljiva... Inace Andry C. koji je prevodilac knjige Operation WW2 (i prijatelj autora) mi je rekao da oni igraju i sa 28mm figurama. Nije mi jasno doduse koliko ih kostaju vozila za tu razmeru niti gde ih nabavljaju ali sam video da firma FOUNDRY ima veliki izbor figura po "paprenim" cenama (ako se dobro secam 6 figura je bilo 15-tak funti).
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Duc d' Elchingen
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Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Ako je neko zainteresovan imam dosta Nemaca i Engleza u 1/72 ofarbanih kao i nesto malo Rusa. Imam i vozila i voljan sam da prodam. Ko je zainteresovan neka se javi.
Takodje skupljam za FoW Nemce i Ruse za 1942.
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Evo i da ja javim da sm poceo sa FOW :lol:
Nearavno i dalje je Operation Overlord tj. WWII sa 1:72 figurama aktuelan i zanimljiv ali sakuilo se nesto para, nasla se nova knjiga (PDF) za Afriku i FOV 2.0 i tako... dogovorili smo se da nam svima (za sada) tema bude Afrika 1942-1943 tj. Middle period gde su bili prisutni svi (Italijani, Amerikanci, Nemci i Britanci a kod nas ce mozda u Africi biti cak i Rusa ?!) ja sam krenuo sa Britancima Motor Rifle Lorried Squad i po malo od svega pa tako imam 1065 Pts. i mogucnost da sve postojece stvari prosirim ili da nesto i dodam. "Cijena prava sitnica" za 1065 Pts. armiju sam platio samo 150 Evra sto ce reci da ce me cela 1500 Pts armija kostati oko 200 Evra. E a sada pitanje tj. odgovor na vase pitanje ZASTO SADA FOW kada sam pljuvao po njemu ? Nova knjiga, tj. nova pravila, dodatni kesh u novcaniku i nagovaranje drugara u klubu. Overlord je i dalje bolji i zanimljiviji ali ovo vise podseca na Warhammer... mislim da sam dovoljno rekao. DEtalji o armiji na zahtev publike 8)
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

Jel ima puno razlike u FoW 2 u odnosu na keca?
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Igor Vasiljevic
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Post by Igor Vasiljevic »

Mislim da nema ali sam letimicnim pregledom primetio da su sada popravili deo sa avijacijom. Sada su napravili extra knjigu sa pravilima koju na zaslost nisam kupio vec koristim PDF skinut sa interneta. Knjiga je inace full kolor 250 stranica ! Nevidjeno izgleda ... a popravili su i armijske knjige koje su objedinjene po temetici pa sada knjiga Afrika ima italijane, britance, nemce i amerikance u sredozmenom moru. Istocni front sa fincima, rusima, madjarima, rumunima i nemcima itd.
Za sada nisam isao u detaljnije proucavanje novih pravila jer sam zaglavio oko engleza u africi pa mi predstoji farbanje i sastavljanje te armije i tek onda analiza novih pravila.
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srebrni vitez
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Post by srebrni vitez »

makifromtoronto wrote:carzki bacam se na citanje novih pravila posle sljake :) ^^

pazario sam malopre Ravellov set Tigar & peshadija
i Roden Sd.Kfz.234/2 'Puma' kit :) ) puma,obozavam pume
Jedva cekam da mi stigne paket

"Sd.Kfz.234/2 Puma production ran into difficulties and only a rather small number of them was produced, 101. Nevertheless they did fight during WWII, with the panzer divisions in Normandy. This impressive car had not realized its full capability, but its combat performance showed exciting potential. After tests in the British and USA ordnance yards it was judged by the Allies to be the best armored car of the WWII era. "

word


btw da video sam da se povela neka prica oko tigrova i t34 tako da evo linka i citata iz clanka

http://www.dasreich.ca/kursk.html

"
On October 29th, just outside of Khodorov on the western bank of the Dnjepr River, some 75 km SE of Kiev, 20 T-34's pierced Das Reich's defense line after 5 a.m.. Quickly advancing to this dangerous breakthrough, Hscha. Willy Simke in Pz. IV #531 and his third platoon, 5th Pz. Co., fired upon the T-34's from 20 to 30 meters, and knocked out 17 of them. In the same area on Nov. 1 the Russians tried to secure their bridgehead over the Dnjepr. Stubaf. Tychsen's IInd Pz. Abt. was on the right flank of Das Reich's position. When enemy tanks and infantry attempted to outflank his unit, Tychsen led his panzer HQ stab and an engineer platoon to the attack around Hill 188. Three T-34's appeared over a rise: Tychsen's BeflPz.III knocked out two, then his swiftly advancing force destroyed 6 more and drove off the rest. That same day in Tiger S11, Hsha. Hans Soretz, I Zug leader 8/Pz.Rgt. DR, scored the 2000th armor kill for the division in 1943. Its panzer regiment had accounted for some 1100 of these, to its own losses of over 250 tanks. On the 11th in Slavia, Tigers shot up more than a dozen Russian tanks. "

naravno nemojmo zaboraviti na http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_boc.asp
Michael Whittmana i Villers-Bocage gde je sam sastavio 21 tenk (cromwelle i firefly-e) i nekolicinu vozila

Sa druge strane i rusi su imali svog Whittmana,tokom perioda kada su nemacki tenkovi bili ............inferiorni prema KV-1

"One of the KV's managed to reach the only supply route of the German task force located in the northern bridgehead, and blocked it for several days. The first unsuspecting trucks to arrive with supplies were immediately shot afire by the tank. There were practically no means of eliminating the monster. It was impossible to bypass it because of the swampy surrounding terrain. Neither supplies nor ammunition could be brought up. The severely wounded could not be moved to the hospital for the necessary operations, so they died. The attempt to put the tank out of actions with the 50 mm antitank gun battery, which had just been introduced at the time, at a range of 500 yards ended with heavy losses to crews and equipment of the battery. The tank remained undamaged in spite of the fact that, as was later determined, it got 14 direct hits. These merely produced blue spots on its armor.

When a camouflaged 88 was brought up, the tank calmly permitted it to put into position at a distance of 700 yards, and then smashed it and its crew before it was even ready to fire.

The attempt of engineers to blow it up at night likewise proved abortive. To be sure, the engineers managed to get to the tank after midnight, and laid the prescribed demolition charge under the caterpillar tracks. The charge went off according to plan, but was insufficient for the oversized tracks. Pieces were broken off the tracks, but the tank remained mobile and continued to molest the rear of the front and to block all supplies. At first it received supplies at night from the scattered Russians groups and civilians, but the Germans later prevented this procedure by blocking off the surrounding area. However, even this isolation did not induce it to give up its favorable position.

It finally became the victim of a German ruse. Fifty tanks were ordered to feign an attack from three sides and to fire on it so as to draw all of its attention in those directions. Under the protection of this feint it was possible to set up and camouflage another 88 mm Flak to the rear of the tank, so that this time it actually was able to fire. Of the 12 direct hits scored by this medium gun, 3 pierced the tank and destroyed it."----carski :) ImageFFS!!! :D:P

"On 19 August 1941, a platoon of four KV-1s of the 1st Tank Division succesfully ambushed a German tank column advancing near the Voiskovitsy collective farm near Leningrad. The platoon leader, Sr. Lt. Zinoviy Kolobanov, knocked out the two lead tanks in the column. The following tanks apparently did not relize what had happened and continued to move forward. Kolobanov's platoon moved into the midst of German battalion and, in the melee that followed, Kolobanov destroyed 22 German tanks, ramming at least one in the process. His tank was hit 135(!) times during the firefight. The other three KVs destroyed a total of 16 other tanks. Kolobanov's feat made him the second highest ranking Soviet tank ace of the war."
А онда, једног мајског јутра:

По берлинской мостовой
Кони шли на водопой,
Шли, потряхивая гривой,
Кони-дончаки.
Распевает верховой:
"Эх, ребята, не впервой
Нам поить коней казачьих
Из чужой реки."

Мы победили!
"Пoкa цapь Hикoлaй вoйнy вoeвaл,
Pacпутин eму жeну пoeбaл!"
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

Iskreno ne verujem u celu ovu pricu oko "herojskog" KV-1 kao i ovu drugu u vezi ruske zasede. Ne znam odakle su informacije ali je sve prepuno nelogicnosti i lici na debelu izmisljotinu.
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bojan
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Post by bojan »

Skobra wrote:Iskreno ne verujem u celu ovu pricu oko "herojskog" KV-1 kao i ovu drugu u vezi ruske zasede...
Prica je istinita samo je vremenom nakicena, pa je 14-15 tenkova naraslo na 50-60...
CYNIC, n.
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

Ma i pored toga cini mi se da ima brdo nelogicnosti, na primer:
it got 14 direct hits
zvizni bilo koji tenk iz tog perioda 14 puta i posada je 100% mrtva/kontuzovana/onesposobljena
demolition charge under the caterpillar tracks
ovo je notorna laz - cim pesadija pridje tenku isti je zavrsio svoju pricu - ili to ili su nemacki inzinjerci bili degenerici, sto bas i ne veruje. Cuj od svih mogucih mesta oni miniraju gusenice
Fifty tanks were ordered to feign an attack from three sides and to fire on it so as to draw all of its attention in those directions. Under the protection of this feint it was possible to set up and camouflage another 88 mm Flak to the rear of the tank, so that this time it actually was able to fire. Of the 12 direct hits scored by this medium gun, 3 pierced the tank and destroyed it
a tek za ovaj feign attack i 12 pogodaka 88-ice u zadnji deo tenka, me niko ne moze ubediti.

Uostalom cela prica je konfuzna i kontradiktorna - te nisu mogli da ga obidju, te su ipak dovukli 88 sa ledja pa je cak i zakamuflirali 8O pre pucanja...
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bojan
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Post by bojan »

Skobra wrote:Ma i pored toga cini mi se da ima brdo nelogicnosti, na primer:
zvizni bilo koji tenk iz tog perioda 14 puta i posada je 100% mrtva/kontuzovana/onesposobljena
Ne mora da znaci - predratni KV je imao izuzetno kvalitetan oklop pa nije ni to nemoguce - pogotovo ako su pogotci bili 37mm ili 50mm.
ovo je notorna laz - cim pesadija pridje tenku isti je zavrsio svoju pricu
Danas da. 1941 - nije moralo da znaci.
- ili to ili su nemacki inzinjerci bili degenerici, sto bas i ne veruje. Cuj od svih mogucih mesta oni miniraju gusenice
Nemci su krajem '41. povecale fabricke "demolition charge"-eve sa 1.5 na 3.5kg... Izgleda da je postojao razlog....
a tek za ovaj feign attack i 12 pogodaka 88-ice u zadnji deo tenka, me niko ne moze ubediti.
KV je sa svih strana imao isti oklop. Takodje 88ica nije dobila kvalitetnu pancirnu municiju do kraja '41. (opet razmisli zasto bas tada?). Starija pancirna municija je bila sklona rikosetiranju i rasprskavanju cak i pri udaru u oklop koji bi trebala da probije.
Uostalom cela prica je konfuzna i kontradiktorna...
Zato sto je nakicena - cinjenica jeste da je taj tenk izdrzao poprilicno pogodaka od kojih su neki i bili 88icom - da li je 12,20 ili 50 - to ne mozemo vise znati.
A cinjenica je i da taj tenk nije predstavljao ista vishe od lokalne smetnje - i da su nemacke operacije isle po planu uprkos pojedinacnim slucajevima poput ovog.
Isto kao i prica o Tigrovima/Panterima koji zaustavljaju hordu sovjetskih tenkova, sve dok sovjeti za 30 dana predju 1000+km kroz nemacke linije.
CYNIC, n.
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
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opsidiannight
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KV1

Post by opsidiannight »

Gospodo, u prvom susretu Vermahta sa KV1 jedino sto im je izvuklo glavu su 88-ice. U tom trenutku su jedino to imali kao protivotrov KV-ovima. Svako ko kaze da 88-ica ne moze, ako nista a ono bar da onesposobi KV 1 velica sovjetske oklopne snage.
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"This time, next year, we'll be millionaires!"
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žubor
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Post by žubor »

Igor Vasiljevic wrote: Sada su napravili extra knjigu sa pravilima koju na zaslost nisam kupio vec koristim PDF skinut sa interneta. .
Definitivno pocinjem da skupljam FoW ... a tempo skupljanja najvise zavisi od toga da li ce moji Daemonhunteri naci novi dom ... no u svakom slucaju u sredu (u Becu) kupujem prve figure ... doduse jos ne znam sta ali svakako nesto vezano za Svabe ;) ...

Jel moze link ka torrentu sa FOW2 pravilima? Ili vec neka druga mogucnost dolaska do tog PDF-a? BTW Koliko je veliki?
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Duc d' Elchingen
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Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Zavisi sta hoces i koji period rata (srednji, kasni) ali 5 tenkova uvek dobro dodje kao i poneki vod mitraljeza i pesadije.
Ja imam 1500 poena Nemaca, fale jos neki transporti i krenuo sam sa Sovjetima. Ideja mi je '42 Ukrajna.
Posto sam veliki zaljubljenik istorijske tacnosti vise preferiram da armija koju skupljam bude realna nego da bude "sve za pobedu".
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Post by Dzon Vejn »

Vec vidim za jedno 6 meseci u marketu temu: prodajem nemce, platio ih 500 eur figure plus 300 farbanje, sve zajedno za 300 eur :? Ali dobro je posto se i meni svidjaju nemci :lol:
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Duc d' Elchingen
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Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Dzon Vejn wrote:Vec vidim za jedno 6 meseci u marketu temu: prodajem nemce, platio ih 500 eur figure plus 300 farbanje, sve zajedno za 300 eur :? Ali dobro je posto se i meni svidjaju nemci :lol:
Ako se odnosilo na mene, ja istorijske periode ne prodajem. [-X
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Post by Dzon Vejn »

Ne nego na Zubora... zna on zato i cuti :P :lol:
That was a hazardous consultation of the Libre Mortis my Lord. An ordeal of high and low doom. The moment I approached the book, it bit me most ferociously.
I must appologize for the explosion that blew off the door of The Chamber Unbreachable, but the simultaneous emergence of seventeen demons from the book spine, caused the spiritual detonation in the soul stoned air of the room.
The whole enterprise was an experience most horrendeous. None but I could have endured it. I was almost damned twice. Even now my soul is twisted to a cork screw.
I suggest you keep the state of your soul to yourself, and inform us, instead, what you have gleamed from the Grimoire.

Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat - that's the key. Humans always fear the alien, the odd. Once the mages had left Novigrad, folk turned their anger against the other races... and, as they have for ages, branded their neighbors their greatest foes.

And 'cause I was gazillionaire and I liked doing it so much, I cut that grass for free.

Glory to Arstotzka!
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Duc d' Elchingen
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Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Cuti zato sto je danas sreda a on je u Becu.
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žubor
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Post by žubor »

Dzon Vejn wrote:Vec vidim za jedno 6 meseci u marketu temu: prodajem nemce, platio ih 500 eur figure plus 300 farbanje, sve zajedno za 300 eur :? Ali dobro je posto se i meni svidjaju nemci :lol:
mozda tako bude a mozda i ne ´... no u svakom slucaju to nije tvoj problem ... a btw sam cu ih farbati ...

odoh sada na aerodrom ... ;)

ciaoooooo
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Post by Skobra »

žubor wrote: mozda tako bude a mozda i ne ´... no u svakom slucaju to nije tvoj problem ... a btw sam cu ih farbati ...
znaci bice za 110 eurica....

jbga nisam mogao da odolim :twisted:
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Post by žubor »

Skobra wrote:
žubor wrote: mozda tako bude a mozda i ne ´... no u svakom slucaju to nije tvoj problem ... a btw sam cu ih farbati ...
znaci bice za 110 eurica....

jbga nisam mogao da odolim :twisted:
zbog ove opaske iz Beca ti necu doneti GBX08 tj. Fallschirmjagerkompanie ...

jbga nisam mogao da odolim ... da te ne kaznim :twisted:
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Skobra
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Post by Skobra »

pogan chicha raste... :?
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Post by žubor »

Skobra wrote:pogan chicha raste... :?
Pogan chicha je kupio GBX08 Skobri, a sebi neke padajuce Amerikance ...

Jedino sam UPLASEN sitnocom figurica ... jbt kako se to farba a da lici na nesto ... no dobro svaki pocetak je tezak ;)

BTW Originalna knjiga je STRAVA kako izgleda ali na zalost nisam je pazario ...

Prvi put u zivotu sam resio da se prvo resim dugova pa tek onda da se opet zadujem, umesto da uradimo ono sto i uvek da dug povecam ;) ...

Takodje intenzivno sam razmisljao o Raiffeisenovoj ponudu koja za 60 dinara mesecno preuzima odgovornost za dug na kreditnoj kartici u slucaju smrti vlasnika ... doduse do bi znacilo da bi prvo trebao da nateram TASTA da otvorim karticu pa mene ovlasti pa da ga kada ispucam ceo limit ... utepam :)

Z.
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Duc d' Elchingen
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Post by Duc d' Elchingen »

Poslao sam ti mejl sa jednom slicicom.
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