2018 Masters, WTC,...

[Dzon Vejn]

edit:
Masters 2018 tabela:
1. Zerg 8.6 poena
2. Dusan Kosanovic 8
3. Djordje Bjelajac 4.2 poena
4. Nenad Nikolic 3.8 poena
5. Sunka 1.4 poena

Masters 2018:

Za razliku od prethodnih godina, ove godine mi je plan da se poeni skupljaju tokom cele godine, te da samim tim bude vise turnira. Poeni se skupljaju na sledeci nacin:
1. Plasman na turniru:
1.1 Broj rundi: pobeda donosi 2 boda, neresena partija 1 bod.
1.2. Koeficijent turnira: k = 2/broj igraca. Plasman se obrne i pomnozi sa koeficijentom (primera radi, ako je turnir od 8 igraca, koeficijent je 2/8 = 0.25, te dalje, ako ste bili prvi dobijate 8*0.25 = 2 boda, a ako ste bili zadnji 1*0.25 = 0.25 boda).
2. Ofarbanost:
2.1. Potpuno ofarbane armije (mislim da nema potrebe da pojasnjavam - svi znamo sta je minimum 3 boje na svim figurama) dodaju 1 bod (sve liste u armiji moraju zadovoljavati ovo da bi se dobio poen)
2.2. Armije kojima su sve baze potpuno obelezene (180 stepeni line of sight - za modele koji nemaju 360 stepeni line of sight) i uradjene (minimum je ili obojeni osnovni nanos - npr. pesak obojen u neku boju, ili makar 2 nanosa - npr. pesak i travica) dodaju 1 bod (sve liste u armiji moraju postovati ovo)
3. Ucesce na internacionalnom turniru dodaje 1 bod (sve liste u armiji moraju zadovoljavati ovo da bi se dobio poen).
4. Samo ucesce na turniru, ukoliko ste odigrali sve runde na turniru: 1 bod

Reprezentativni primer: plasman: 9. mesto na turniru od 16 igraca, uz 3 pobede, nije bilo stranaca, nepotpuno obojena armija sa potpuno uradjenim postoljima, odigrali ste ceo turnir do kraja = 3*2 + 0.125*8 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 = 9 bodova

Organizatori domacih turnira su u obavezi da najave turnir minimum 7 dana unapred (pozeljno sto vise) da bi se turnir bodovao.

Ucesnici internacionalnih turnira su u obavezi da najave odlazak na turnir minimum 7 dana unapred, kako bi i ostali igraci mogli da se prikljuce.

Domaci turniri su limitirani na 1 turnir u 4 nedelje u okviru istog grada. Ako se lepo budemo organizovali, ovako bi mogli na svake 2 nedelje da imamo po 1 turnir.

Da bi se turnir racunao u masters plasman, organizatori turnira su u obavezi da obezbede minimum 2400 dinara po turniru u nagradni fond za masters (dakle, turnir od 8 igraca bi imao cenu ulaza 300 dinara, dok bi turnir od 16 igraca imao ulaz od 150 dinara). Imajte na umu da odredjeni klubovi imaju dodatne troskove.

Turniri mogu biti bilo kog tipa, ne mora samo steamroller. Formati takodje, na organizatoru turnira je da odabere format.

Turniri nemaju minimalni broj igraca.

Razgovaracu sa Pedjom oko nagrada, tj popusta na iste. Sa obzirom na to da bi nagradni fond trebao da bude znatno veci ove godine, ocekujem da cemo moci da obezbedimo i znatno bolje nagrade, kao i nagrade za razne kategorije (prva tri mesta (30%, 25%, 15%), best painted (10%), lucky random player koji nije nagradjen za nesto drugo (10%), most active player (10%)).

Za ucesce na master turniru ove godine bice neophodno da imate ofarbano sve osim unita, u svim listama, kao i da su sve baze propisno uradjene (kao sto je gore kod bodovanja opisano). Mislim da je blizu godinu dana dovoljno da se ovo ispostuje. Sledece godine ce biti zahtevana i kompletna ofarbanost i kompletno uradjene baze.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zdravo drustvo,

kao sto znate, imam u planu da nastavim organizovanje WMH turnira / Mastera i u 2018. godini. Sa nekima od vas sam vec pricao o idejama za sledecu godinu, trenutno prolazim kroz sve ideje koje su iznesene. Ono sto vidim kao generalni konsenzus je da ljudi zele veci broj turnira tokom godine, i da se svaki boduje za kvalifikacije.

Osetite se slobodnim da iznesete svoje ideje za 2018. godinu. Pa da prodiskutujemo. Molim vas samo da diskusija bude konstruktivna.

Takodje, kontaktirao me je covek iz Grcke, da proveri da li bi bili zainteresovani da dodjemo na njihove turnire. Oni imaju 2 veca turnira, jedan u maju, sto mi se cini da bi bilo izvodljivo za nas, i jedan u decembru kada i mi imamo poprilican broj turnira i kada nije pred/letnja sezona.

Pored svega, dotakao se i mogucnosti formiranja WTC tima (5 ljudi), kazu da su u protekle 3 godine bili na 30ak internacionalnih turnira, i da im je WTC bio daleko najbolji. U poljskoj je sledeci. Zainteresovani? https://wmhwtc.wordpress.com/

C&C welcome .

[Shunka]

Treba ići na turnire u Mađarsku, organizuju ih često, plus dolazili su ljudi kod nas u nekoliko navrata.
Ja sam zainteresovan i za WTC i druge strane turnire.

Što se konstruktivnih predloga tiče, kul bi bilo da osim kvalifikacionih imamo i neke casual turnire, tipa 2 na 2 ili tako neke vesele formate. Ako uspemo da organizujemo više od 5 turnira godišnje, jeli

[Rick]

Hey Nenad - thank you for kindly agreeing to run events this year - it is very selfless of you and I am sure we all appreciate it.

Regarding foreign events - especially the WTC. It would be great, everyone says it is an amazing event - and I think they would love a new country to join the event, but somehow I don't see it from us. Warmachine seems to be many people's second or third preferred game and thus they are unwilling to spend the 1000 or so euros that a trip like that would entail. I can really recommend the Hungarian masters in Budapest in November. Very well organised, no easy games and a very social bunch going out in the evening.

[Dzon Vejn]

Sto se tice WTC-a: ono sto je pogodno je sto nije istog datuma kada i ETC. To olaksava stvari mnogima. Ove godine je u Poljskoj, koja nije daleko, i u koju se sasvim sigurno moze otici za manje od 1000 EUR po osobi, cak i sa mojim standardim putovanja (Google kaze da bi let tamo i nazad kostao 17200 dinara, Google takodje kaze da postoje nocenja od 1100 dinara na gore - najskuplji koji mi je zapao za oko je oko 12k, sto znaci moze se proci znatno jeftinije ). Koliko vidim, 2017. je 210 evra kostao smestaj i ucesce po osobi. Poslao sam i email upit, pa cu javiti preciznije.

Nevezano od WTC-a, Grcka je uvek interesantna, posebno u letnjem periodu, jer to moze biti i odmor + gaming za ljude koji imaju porodicu. Ukoliko ima zainteresovanih mogli bi uskoro da se vidimo pa da popricamo o tome.

[Pendargon]

Mislim da se zanosimo. Hajde da prvo probamo da se igramo koliko toliko redovno, makar jednom u dve nedelje da imamo dan za igranje u klubu, da isprobavamo liste, da dolazimo na turnire, da uzivamo u igri, pa tek onda da razmisljamo o inostransvu, wtcu i ostalim stvarima

[Rick]

Ukoliko ima zainteresovanih mogli bi uskoro da se vidimo pa da popricamo o tome.

Beware trying to make everyone happy - it ends up pleasing no one and making you the most unhappy

[Dzon Vejn]

Do sada ste verovatno videli i na FB - 5. i 6. maj ce biti turnir u Grckoj. Nemojte da zaboravite da su 1. i 2. neradni dani. Sto ce reci da se za 3 slobodna dana moze spojiti lep odmor & igranje od 9 dana .

Da li je iko uopste zainteresovan za ovo?

[Shunka]

Hmmm... Možda ja.

[Dzon Vejn]

Jos neko?

[Dzon Vejn]

Editovao sam prvi post, u kome sam napisao rulespack za ovu godinu, uzevsi u obzir da je odziv za komentare bio - skoro nikakav.

Trudio sam se da iskombinujem stvari o kojima sam sa igracima pricao uzivo, ili preko FB.

[Rick]

Hi Nenad - sorry I didn't notice the first post had been edited as I tend to go to the first unread post.

I will happily and gratefully follow whatever rulespack put forward but can I ask for some clarity because I my poor translation skills - you get an extra point if a foreigner attends the tournament or if you have attended a foreign tournament since the last event? I assume the former.
And with this the idea is;
Player A with an unpainted and unbased army plays 3 rounds of a 4 round event (leaves early) and finishes in 11th place with 2 wins. His score is 2 x 2 + (0.125 * 6) + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 or 4.75 points.
Player B with a fully painted and based army gets zero wins but plays each game in an 8 man event where some chap from foreign climes appears. Player B gets 0 x 2 + (0.25 * 1) + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 or 4.25 points.
If my assumptions are correct my only feedback is that I don't see the necessity for the extra point if the event is international UNLESS you intend to try and run a bigger event at some point and invite players from elsewhere and then it makes sense. Looks good/fine.

[Dzon Vejn]

Both - if international players come here or if you go to an international tournament, you get an extra point. From my experience, people tend to get better when they play with different meta-games. When they play only local meta-game, they don't get better overall (again, from my experience).

Just one correction in your math - if there were 16 players in 4 round event, then yes. If he was 11th out of 11 players, he would get 0.125, instead of 0.125*6.

Yes, I'll try to contact people from other countries and try to increase attendance at our tournaments at some point, if our local player base manages to consolidate and become regular.

[TheSerbianRaven]

The scoring system seems like a good idea. So the top 8 players on the list would go to the masters? This is nice since it rewards participation. This means that even if you place 1st or 2nd in an early tournament you still have to compete to keep your position instead of just sitting on your... laurels.

[Dzon Vejn]

Upravo tako - 8 najboljih igraca tokom cele godine idu na finalni turnir.

Bice prvi turnir najverovatnije 27. januara, samo da proverim slobodne termine u klubovima i koji cu tacno format napraviti.

Takodje, odlucio sam da posebno nagradim ljude koji odigraju CEO turnir, i ljude koji se potrude oko svojih minijatura - u suprotnom bi mogli i papiricima da se igramo.

[Rick]

Both - if international players come here or if you go to an international tournament, you get an extra point. From my experience, people tend to get better when they play with different meta-games. When they play only local meta-game, they don't get better overall (again, from my experience).

But you are rewarding players with the financial means to travel to foreign events at their disposal which is a bit of a double blow as some would like to but can't.

The 27th is pretty close....

[Dzon Vejn]

27th will be off, since I've got flu again and can't get rid of it (high temperature and stuff)... I'll write at least 7 days in advance tournament invitation.

About international tournaments - for years back, most WMH players in Serbia attended 0 or 1 international WMH tournament (maybe you've been to more tournaments each year - and even then, only because you visit England throughout the year). I don't see that it will change, and that the "rich" would be abusing this rule to "buy" their place in masters instead of "poor" but "great" players . On the other side - it might stimulate people to go from 0-1 to 1-2 (though I highly doubt anything will change this year).

To be even more open - this year we barely got 8 attendees for the Master event... If 1 more guy had quit, we would be at 7 players (since every single person that participated at any event got invitation). That's 8 people with me as a reserve player .

In my opinion, WMH needs more tournaments and playing throughout the year. My hope is that this rule might improve it at least a bit.

Of course - if majority of our community considers that rule as a possible abuse by the rich, I'll remove it.

[Rick]

About international tournaments - for years back, most WMH players in Serbia attended 0 or 1 international WMH tournament (maybe you've been to more tournaments each year - and even then, only because you visit England throughout the year). I don't see that it will change, and that the "rich" would be abusing this rule to "buy" their place in masters instead of "poor" but "great" players . On the other side - it might stimulate people to go from 0-1 to 1-2 (though I highly doubt anything will change this year).

You're right - over the course of several tournaments the 1-2 foreign events that players might attend will make no difference.

To be even more open - this year we barely got 8 attendees for the Master event... If 1 more guy had quit, we would be at 7 players (since every single person that participated at any event got invitation). That's 8 people with me as a reserve player .

The game is in a very weird place, both from its designers and as something in the Serbian gaming community.

[Pendargon]

In my opinion, WMH needs more tournaments and playing throughout the year.

PLAYING

To je kljucna rec.
Skore svake nedelje zovem na partiju, i retko kad se neko odazove. Svi imaju svoje razloge, od idenja frizeru do dece i ozbiljnih real life problema, ali, kad se podvuce crta, niko se ne igra.
Dok ne budemo imali club night, makar jednom u dve nedleje koji cemo postovati koliko ko moze, ili tako nesto, sve ce se, kao i sad, svoditi na pisanije ovde na forumu. Gomila dobrih ideja, zaista, ali sve to pada u vodu ako mi, igraci, ne dolazimo da se igramo. Finalni turnir prosle godine je jedva skrpljen ( ja sam izostao zbog sahrane, nazalost, oko toga se nije dalo ). Treba nam vise igranja.
Da li bi ljudima odgovrao neki dan, sta znam, cetvrtak, nedelja, neko popodne da se skupljamo jednom u dve nedelje i za pocetak, samo se igramo?

[Rick]

There is a weekly game every Wednesday and has been for a while now. Anyone turning up is guaranteed a game.

As I said earlier, the game is in a weird place and I personally don't see 2018 being a year that it changes but who knows.

[Pendargon]

yeah, but not at the club, or a public place where people can see it played, and get interested. It is at your house, and that is a big difference

[Dzon Vejn]

Dule, savrseno te razumem. Jebiga, meni je previse cesto iskrsavalo nesto - posao, dete, razbolim se ili nesto trece nebitno. Real life stuff je poceo da me sustize. A duze vreme zelim da pocnem da igram sa tobom na redovnoj bazi, ne bih li konacno naucio pravila .

I vrlo verovatno si u pravu da bi odredjivanje nekog dana moglo da pomogne. Npr. Rick se sredom igra kod sebe WMH, mi kod mene igramo petkom (najcesce) AoS, itd. Pravo da ti kazem, taj petak AoS mi je moguce izvesti samo zato sto znam unapred svaki petak da petkom imam nesto (dobro, i zato sto subotom ne moram da ustanem prerano ).

Mozda bi mogli da pokusamo da organizujemo neki dan u svakih nedelju ili dve, club day WMH. Da se ljudi samo izjasne koji dan im odgovara?

Takodje, znam da je ranije nekima smetalo igranje u Zmaju, jer za razliku od mene, tebe, Ote i ostalih koji igraju sve i svasta, oni igraju samo WMH i ne placa im se ulaz niti clanarina (koliko se secam, Grenadier je drugima smetao zato sto su im figure bile u Zmaju). Mozda mozemo da pokusamo da se podelimo jedan vikend u Zmaju, jedan u Grenadieru ili tako nesto.

[Rick]

yeah, but not at the club, or a public place where people can see it played, and get interested. It is at your house, and that is a big difference

My wife's school but let's not split hairs. I would also argue it is the best option. Let's say that there is a club night in a public space in town. Winter, rainy, shitty traffic and you fight your way across to get to it. No one else shows up. Some people would be pissed and not come again. Same scenario but 3 or 5 players show up and you're the odd one - you have packed your models and have no one to play and the games go on so there is no time to play after. Same result. If I make the effort then I want to play and if I don't I won't make the effort again as my free time is too scarce and precious for me to waste or risk wasting.
In the school if no one shows up I hang around for half an hour then go upstairs - no harm, no foul. 3 players turn up I sit out as I have the least inconvenience. No fuss, no bother. If you turn up you get to play whether there is 2,3 or 7 or 8 players. No one gets let down, if you make the effort then you play - simple as that. People will let each other down - hell I have, and the point is to create an environment where someone that misses a few weeks is then not embarrassed to show up when they are free.
Dule, you know I enjoy playing you - every game is hard (for me) and competitive and I would make the effort to come to play you but I cannot play until 21.30 on weekdays and maybe 1 in 4 Sundays in a very strict time window. I set up Dad's night for Dad's because the most common thing with us is we can play after the kids have gone to bed and rarely at weekends. We're crappy - sorry.

[Rolle]

Hajde da i ja kazem koju iako me niko nije pitao.

Od skora sam tek počeo da igram WMH i da nije bilo Ricka i njegove inicijative sa igranjem sredom uveče, verovatno ne bih ni počeo da igram WMH.
Meni lično mnogo znači informacija da svake srede uveče mogu da igram ukoliko nadjem slobodnog vremena. Varijante sa dogovaranjem u stilu "hoce li neko da igra danas popodne" mi nikako ne odgovaraju jer uglavnom ne mogu da organizujem slobodno vreme u tako kratkom roku, tim pre sto zivim u prigradskom naselju i nemam svoja kola pa je i to problem.

Takodje ne vidim toliku potrebu da se insistira na Zmaju, jer onaj ko već dolazi u klub verovatno vec zna za WMH. Ja lično nikad nisam bio u Zmaju(bar ne na sadašnjoj lokaciji), slučano sam pronašao forum, a npr. još pre 17-18 godina sam počeo da igram FRP, nešto kasnije i MTG, i ispratio sam brdo klubova i prodavnica u istoriju.
Ono što pokušavam da kažem jeste da onaj ko želi da se zainteresuje za igru verovatno će kao i ja naći informaciju gde može da je proba/igra i da sa te strane jako puno znači redovan termin sa zagarantovanim igračima, koji je pritom u sred nedelje, jer ipak vikendom treba provesti vreme sa porodicom, ženom, devojkom, na sportu itd., a da ljudi koji već dolaze u klub svakako znaju i za Warhammer, i za FOW, pa na kraju i za WMH.

Jedina varijanta u kojoj bih video neki značajni rast zanimanja za ovu igru, van trenutne situacije, jeste da počnu da se organizuju turniri na sajmovima, tematskim okupljanjima i sl. , a samim pukim izmeštanjem mesta igranja u klub ne vidim neki preterani benefit. Meni lično ne pravi bitnu razliku sama lokacija jer u svakom slučaju moram da isplaniram prevoz, ali sama sigurnost da ću sigurno imati sa kim da odigram partiju kad već odvojim vreme kojeg nažalost nemam puno itekako znači.

[Dzon Vejn]

Pa upravo to i jeste poenta - nije problem da sreda vece ostane kod Ricka. Mozemo samo uvesti jos neki dan u nekom klubu, gde ostali ljudi mogu videti da se igramo.

Svodi se na isto - ljudi trebaju da znaju da danom "tim i tim" postoji planirani dolazak radi igranja WMH. Em mozes (ne samo ti, nego i ostali) da planiras vreme (prevoz, slobodno vreme, itd.), em moze da se napravi thread ili sta god na kojem ce se isto kao i sa Rickom razmenjivati poruke tipa:

Q: Dolazi li neko "tim i tim danom" sutra/danas?
A: Dolazimo "ja, Pera, Mika i Zika"

Prednost je sto ljudi mogu da vide da se nesto igra, i samim tim se zainteresuju. Mozda se tako poveca i brojno stanje za Dad's night, dakle svima ce samo odgovarati.

Meni je recimo radni dan relativno kasno pocetak u 21, jer nisam motorizovan, i ako ne znam da dolazi neko ko ce proci preko Banjice u povratku, nije mi bas zgodno. Takodje, mnogo mi je lakse da svratim posle posla do Grenadiera (oko 3 min peske) ili do Zmaja (3 stanice busom od posla), i vratim se u neko normalnije vreme kuci. Naravno, kad mogu da odvojim vreme, rado cu doci ponovo do Ricka, bilo je super prosli put. Samo nas tamo ostali ne vide.

[Rick]

Anyway we're getting off topic a little. Nenad, I look forward to the next event - February is a tough month for me but if I can reschedule things to come I will and I am sure everyone in the community feels that way too.
While I know it is not for everyone, there is a place weekly where anyone can get a game. I would be delighted if there were more and, again, would try and attend whenever possible.

[Dzon Vejn]

U prvom postu je azurirana, na samom vrhu, tabela sa trenutnim plasmanom za ovu godinu.

[Dzon Vejn]

Posto me je vise ljudi upitkivalo razna pitanja o formatima turnira, predlazem vam svima da se ukljucite u diskusiju i dogovorite kakav turnir zelite da igrate nakon turnira 31.3.

[erevian]

Hellow from Greece,

Just to leave an info about WTC.

Last Year was organised in Belgium (an expensive country). The event takes place in one hotel and everything is inclusive. We paid 260 euro for :
Sleeping Friday-Saturday-Sunday
Meals : Friday Dinner, Saturday Breakfast, lunch , dinner, Sunday Breakfast, lunch (with extra 15 euro we could had dinner).
Event fee.

With air tickets, and public transportation was rough about 600 euros

This year is in Poland a more cheaper country, and the event is next to the airport. so the estimation is around 450-500.

Hope i see you there, also in our Masters :D

[bjelajac]

Does anyone have the dates of any upcoming events in the neighbourhood (Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, Greece and so on)?

[Dzon Vejn]

Grcka je 5. i 6. maj, ostalo ne znam.

Kad stignem sledece nedelje da prelistam svih ovih silnih 0 predloga , detaljno cu ih razmotriti i najaviti format za sledeci event .

[Rick]

Does anyone have the dates of any upcoming events in the neighbourhood (Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, Greece and so on)?

They have events in Hungary every month called Kazuar - which are one day events. Over the summer there will be big events in Vienna and Bratislava. November is the Hungarian masters.