WM/Hordes Escalation Tournament 8th February (Sigil)

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:31 pm

I really wanted to play Skorne but there is no T&C list that is competitve against Warmachine. Their warlocks are too specific.
I think I know the list that Miroslav will play and it is the best one at 350 with the possible exception of Madrak. The only problem with that list is that it means playing eMadrak at 750 points which is really tricky.
I don't think anyone except Dalibor could field 750 points of Orboros (unless it was made up of minions) and Dalibor is playing Cygnar. I wouldn't be surprised if a Saeryn/Everblight list creeps in as that has the potential to nerf a lot of the top Warmachine lists especially with the Harrier bomb.

It is part of the reason why I'm going to be running a couple of Hordes only tournaments this year. When you have Warmachine & Hordes it really limits the Warlocks Hordes players can play, and some of these are great fun in Hordes only games and I really want to open this up.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:19 pm

I have just realized that I'm the only one playing Hordes.
Ok, then.
I think I'm going to play Everblight...

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:45 pm

coz when the goin' gets tough,
painbringer reaches for the easy button

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:45 am

Just wait until I take Doomshaper again.
You know what he does to people.
And he's just an old man with a big stick.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:11 am

Both Grim & Madrak can be good at 350 points. If your going with Saeryn, borrow a couple of Harriers.

Post by **Shunka** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:27 pm

Hey, I haven't decided for certain that I'm playing WM. And I don't want to decide yet.
Options I'm considering are:
Sorscha
Vladimir Tzepesci
Gorten Groundback
Master Morghul
Kaya (what's wrong with lots of minions?)

And most of you guys aren't going to win the tournament, so you might as well play something different. And fun.

Pendargon · Post by **Pendargon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:50 pm

I seriously think that Saeryn is very bad option for this kind of tournament. She suffers greatly against Warmachine at 350, and I really, really don't see how could she possibly win against Vladimir, or darius, Goreshade or Caine (apart from player's stupidity), who are clear favorites in this format since their Epics are compatible with normal variants. And if you loose first round in a 3-round tournament... bye-bye win. And harriers are next to useless in 350. Thargosh would be my first choice for Legion, because his feat is great in 350 and 500, is a huge beatstick, and gives consealment and -2 str.
Sorscha is penalised because her epic is poor, Vlad is clear favourite to win, Little dwarf is rock-hard, and if you manage to squeeze through 500, morghoul is made of win.
I, for one, am coming (if I'm coming, my exam schedule is not yet out) to have some fun, and let others win (for once...). Probably taking Magnus, or Terminus :-D. Or, if I'm feeling frustrated, Goreshade....

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:57 pm

OK so let's say you play Morghoul
Your list will struggle for 2 reasons (i) you have no feat except against Miroslav and (ii) even if you take the Gladiator/Bronzeback combo without Paingivers your threat range is too small (9" charge and 10" running) but large enough to mean that you have to keep Morghoul close to the action otherwise losing power over his beasts. A cyclops would be a good way of closing the difference but it is very difficult to keep him in Morghoul's control area. Morghoul close to the action has too many ways of dying.

Kaya could work as she's essentially a beast caster and doesn't need any troops even at 750 points. You'd need to borrow at least 1 woldwyrd though I think.
If DG didn't turn up I was thinking of;
350 Kaya, Gorax, Pureblood, Warpwolf
500 Kaya, Gorax, Pureblood, Warpwolf, Woldwyrd, shifting stones + bog trogs
750 eKaya Gorax, Pureblood, Warpwolf, Woldwyrd, laris, 2 x shifting stones, 2 x sentry stones, bog trogs and gatormen
but I don't knwo where I would get the extra shifting stones and 2 sentry stones for the 750 point list.

Sorscha, Vlad and/or Gorton would be interesting.

And honestly I think there are several people that could win this thing. I always go for a themed list but I don't want to turn up knowing I will lose. Play a fun list but a least a list with a chance.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:12 pm

I totally disagree with the Saeryn/Harrier thing.

You have a 14" threat range from the beast plus 2" from slipstream plus 2" from Blightbringer and it's autohit. 2 boosted POW 12 hits will put a dent in Goreshade and Vlad and his cloak of shadows won't protect him. Next declare feat and you have little in the way of retaliation. You also probably have an Angelius in melee with you and a Seraph has just finished peppering you. Yes they all can avoid free strikes but with Saeryn you simply rinse and repeat. There is no format where Saeryn is 'a bad choice' as she's a top tier caster. Thagrosh is also a great choice as you basically get 2 Angeli for the price of 1.

Goreshade, Vlad, Denny and the Coven will all be hard to beat.

In his non-epic form Morghoul is not made of win. No-one on the planet believes that.

Pendargon · Post by **Pendargon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:17 pm

And honestly I think there are several people that could win this thing.

This is true...
Though...
Anybody taking Darius or Vladimir is at clear advantage. The Coven is always strong, and a favourite (I understand Nikica is bringing the witches...). A lot of casters are severely handicapped by the fact that their epics play much different than prime versions (Eskarre, and Edenny being obvious examples). Mortenebra, Goreshade and the coven are favourites for Cryx, Vladimir and Irusk, and old witch (not having Epic version -or rather, being so old that she already IS epic... :lol: :lol: ), For Cygar Darius, Caine and Haley (Stryker disqualified himself due to his epic being very different from p version).I think Kraye, though "jack" caster would get murdered at 350... Protectorate has it toughest, since Sevvy is potentially weak at 350, and at 750 if he is up against Cryx (and there is strong possibility that he will be). Kreoss is disq, since his epic version is MUCH different. Feora sucks at 350, Amon ad-raza sucks at anything above 350, Britney is dead meat at 350, so that basically leaves Reznik and Silent bob, with probably silent bob having greater success curve if he manages to squeeze through 350.

Mercs... well... we play with what we got... :lol: 8)
I would like to play Shae, but don't have enough for 750, because SOMEBODY bought all the Nomads from the WM discount bin... :x :x

You have a 14" threat range from the beast plus 2" from slipstream plus 2" from Blightbringer and it's autohit. 2 boosted POW 12 hits will put a dent in Goreshade and Vlad and his cloak of shadows won't protect him. Next declare feat and you have little in the way of retaliation. You also probably have an Angelius in melee with you and a Seraph has just finished peppering you.

Right... and cryx player sits there all that time... doing nothing... :lol: :lol: :lol:
And I would like to remind you how DEVASTATING mageblight is against hordes. Also - two boosted pow 12 against goreshade - 6 pts of damage on avg. Against Vlad - 0 points of damage on avg.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:20 pm

Didn't Ines beat you recently with Saeryn?

Pendargon · Post by **Pendargon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:30 pm

yes.
On three notes :
1) I was playing Eskarre
2) I played for her with her legion :lol: :lol: :lol:
3) Eskarre missed 3 boosted attack rolls with tits when she managed to charge poor Saeryn.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

But seriously now, It's an oppinion that both Bojan and I share. The MAIN reason why Legion ISN'T winning any major tournaments is people overrelying on Angeli and Saeryn, while neglecting pure awesomness of Thargosh and Carnivean.
There is probably NO way (sans extreme luck with dice, and even less since A&H showed up to further ridicule her feat) for a popular "winged" Saeryn army to win agains Vlad or Sorscha, and probably even Butcher ('cause he can handle one Angelus charge).
Either way, If you fear her so :-), set my Goreshade against Miroslav's Saeryn at 350 at first round, and I'll demonstrate

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:59 pm

Since I'm one of those that are coming to play "for fun", I would be greatfull if you pair me up with some decent people in 1st round (and hopefully 2nd and 3rd too)

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:05 pm

Who said I wanted to play Saeryn?
I have to agree with Dule here. I would never take Saeryn in 350 if I want to play 'seriously'. Thagrosh is awesome in 350 because of his feat and spells. And he can also deal some serious damage. Heck, he is awesome in any 'beat-the-hell-out-of-you" list.
Saeryn is a great caster and I love her, but I just feel "uncomfortable" with her at 350.

Maybe it's better to stick with Trolls :D. Rick was probably right when he said he knows what list I'm going to play.

Duc d' Elchingen · Post by **Duc d' Elchingen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:09 pm

Dzon Vejn wrote:Since I'm one of those that are coming to play "for fun", I would be greatfull if you pair me up with some decent people in 1st round (and hopefully 2nd and 3rd too)

I second that...

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:28 pm

Not at all - I do very well against Saeryn. I just don't agree that she's a bad match up at 350 points. I'd be VERY interested to see how you get on playing Morghoul though - after all he is 'made of win'.

@ painbringer
whose side are you on? You're playing saeryn goddammit and you better do bloody well!!!!!

@ Dzoni and Duc
There are two kinds of people. The kind that can have fun and not win and the kind that can't. There is absolutely no problem with that at all - decency has nothing to do with it - both can be decent players. But the one kind can't understand why the other must win and the second can't understand how anyone can have fun in losing. The problem arises because the second type really enjoy playing the first type of person but the first type of person really doesn't enjoy playing the second.
It is maybe that in your first or second round you will be faced with a horrible match up. I apologise - there is little that can be done about it. You either have to reconcile yourself to the fact that you'll only have 2 out of 3 enjoyable matches or face the fact that it is a tournament and bring along your premier lists.

dublerius · Post by **dublerius** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:35 pm

im bringing feora umber guard list (350 and 500 points) and 750 ill use some mercs and stuff because i dont have models for 750 umber guard :D so im playing for fun :D

Duc d' Elchingen · Post by **Duc d' Elchingen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:38 pm

I couldn't make a premier list even if it jumps and bites my huge ass...

Pendargon · Post by **Pendargon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:50 pm

I'd be VERY interested to see how you get on playing Morghoul though - after all he is 'made of win'.

and I said :

if you manage to squeeze through 500, morghoul is made of win.

I think that Morgoul might do well at 350. Big Skorne beasts have skills to go toe-to-toe with more or less any warjack, and thanx to the inherent great def and that spell where he gets to move when hit, with autodamage, he might (and repeat might), pull a win, depending on the machup (obviously, Sorscha would give him fits, but...). 500 is a really difficult ground for him (and for Skorne, in general...). But, if he comes to 750, it's cruisin' time, as I think that Emorghoul is perhapst the strongest warlock of all hordes (with krueger, baldur, Saeryn and Grim).

Duc d' Elchingen · Post by **Duc d' Elchingen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:59 pm

I am thinking of using either Haley or Jeremiah.
But with what jacks well that is still in debate...

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Morghoul can't do anything at 350 points vs WM. At 500 points he's a little better because of Paingivers and Swamp Gobbers. At 750 points he's a great assassination caster though he still isn't in league with some - as he's more of a fantastic solo.

Duc d' Elchingen wrote:I am thinking of using either Haley or Jeremiah.
But with what jacks well that is still in debate...

imho Haley, Thorn, Lancer, Centurion is not a great 350 point list but it sets up a strong 500 & 750 point list. If you want to borrow any jacks let me know. I really don't know Jeremiah that well. It maybe worth proxying a squire with whichever warcaster you use at 500 points though. They are the new auto-include and make Haley 2" more annoying.

Bathory · Post by **Bathory** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:14 pm

Don't be a pussy Duc, take the Union liutenant. Or you're going to war with that crippled pole dancer/attention whore?

Post by **Zekina banda** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:45 pm

There can be only one lone rider

Duc d' Elchingen · Post by **Duc d' Elchingen** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:30 pm

FGSerbia wrote: imho Haley, Thorn, Lancer, Centurion is not a great 350 point list but it sets up a strong 500 & 750 point list. If you want to borrow any jacks let me know. I really don't know Jeremiah that well. It maybe worth proxying a squire with whichever warcaster you use at 500 points though. They are the new auto-include and make Haley 2" more annoying.

It is more likely Haley, Defender, Lancer and Thorne.
This is the list that has most chances now.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:16 pm

Try it.

After much deliberation I am now totally confused as to which list to play.

PainBringer · Post by **PainBringer** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Ummmm... Why don't you play Skorne?
C'mon man! You play Skorne, I'll play Trolls!

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:38 am

There is utterly no point. I don't mind fun games but it's not fun when you really are just putting your models out to be slaughtered. No matter how well I play or how the Gods of Dice smile Skorne cannot compete against top tier WM lists at 350 and 500.
It can't at 750 and above against a good player and a top list but you can at least have some fun.
I think Trolls have 2 lists which are both fun and competitive when it comes to caster kill. At Steamroller they currently can't really compete.

I am stuck between 4 cygnar lists - all with different casters. My original choice was a more fun list but having read a really nasty combo on the PP forums my competitive juices are starting to flow.

Resurrection · Post by **Resurrection** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:50 am

Pitanje:
Jel turnir po sistemu eliminacije posle svake runde ili ce svi stici da odigraju partije u svim varijantama?

Post by **Shunka** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:18 am

Nema eliminacija.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:44 am

Swiss style but only 3 rounds. If we do get 16 players then it is feasible that we could have a draw and a necessary 4 round.

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:40 pm

- Miroslav
- Shukaku
- Zekina
- Pavlik Vladansson
- Nikica
- Shunka
- Rick
- Stef
- Pedja
- Momcilo
- Petar
- Srdjan (possibility)
- Djordje (possibility)
- Nenad (possibility)
- Vuk (possibility)
- Dule (possibility)

Do to space and set up can you know you please let me know (via this thread) if you are coming and are not on the list or are not coming and are on the list. It'll save tears later.

Pavlik Vladansson · Post by **Pavlik Vladansson** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:59 pm

Oh, I'll be there. Might be a bit hungover, but I'll be there.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Turnir se placja 200 dinara!!

Krunkova · Post by **Krunkova** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:53 pm

FGSerbia wrote:Morghoul can't do anything at 350 points vs WM. At 500 points he's a little better because of Paingivers and Swamp Gobbers. At 750 points he's a great assassination caster though he still isn't in league with some - as he's more of a fantastic solo.

Duc d' Elchingen wrote:I am thinking of using either Haley or Jeremiah.
But with what jacks well that is still in debate...
imho Haley, Thorn, Lancer, Centurion is not a great 350 point list but it sets up a strong 500 & 750 point list. If you want to borrow any jacks let me know. I really don't know Jeremiah that well. It maybe worth proxying a squire with whichever warcaster you use at 500 points though. They are the new auto-include and make Haley 2" more annoying.

I'm gonna cut in here- about Kraye that is.

Kraye is one evil,banjo playing Terance Hil if you like.

I was thinking of using Kraye myself for this tourny-but as it turns out I'm not gonna make it so my list was going to be:
350 Kraye
Lancer
Charger
Hunter

500 Squire
Centurion
J.Warcaster
Gobo mechks
J Warcaster

750 T-head
Strangeways
3 Stormsmiths

The MM list is playable,since all models are immune to free strikes.You can always move away no matter what.3 Shooting models with more or less efective AP fire.
Lancer is candidate for Full tilt-and combined with Kraye's feat ,means he can charge
12"+5"+2"- 19 " total- very,very dangerous.

The 500 pt list adds some flexibility,Lancer is used for charging and arcing spells(duh).Cent get Full tilted. R2D2 does it's thing.Gobos block charge lanes, are used for gobbo bowling,perhaps repair jacks.
Junior casts AS on Kraye.
Hunter and Charger do their thing, move-bang-move.

At 750,the plan doesn't change much,T-head + Strangeways gives more options then I have time to write(I'm working at the moment you know

I'm not sure if it was 2 or 3 stormsmiths- but they pop solos,unit leaders etc.

Food for thought:
T-head can do 2 handed throws.
Kraye cannot be knocked down.
On the feat turn,jack get to stand up for free.

Welcome to flying jacks' land.

I haven't tried the 750 list.500 worked okay and is surprisingly fast(almost every model moves twice).The lists where build on a budget-so no Thorn is present-but I would most certainly recommend one.Casting full tilt on it on the feat turn means it moves once right away,then charges like the for mentioned lancer and then again when you're done.
That's not very likely,thou- since by the time you're finished with that little bugga- you should be shaking hands already \:D/

Cheers

Post by **Dzon Vejn** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:15 pm

Ja se ipak necu pojaviti. Kafana traje do 1, dok krenemo bice pola 2, dok stignemo pola 4, tako da pre 4 ne mogu da legnem.

Sorry, mozda sledeci put

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:04 pm

We have 2 people playing Kraye, though I think your 350 point list will fall down as soon as you come across Vlad and Windwall. From experience a Lancer really struggles to kill Vlad unaided and if you charge Kraye in you need to make sure you kill him - Blood of King + Beast 09 = Death

Post by **Zekina banda** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:30 pm

Any list with Kraye, in MM, could kill Sorcha with Def 20 only by mear chance. But, I'll still gona play him :D

FGSerbia · Post by **FGSerbia** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:22 am

yep 14 on 3d6 - twice probably. Unless you slam something over her...

Bathory · Post by **Bathory** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:54 am

Do we know the exact schedule and number of participants for the tournament?

Resurrection · Post by **Resurrection** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:21 am

Nista se ne zna do poslednjeg trenutka, kao i uvek

Za sad semo jedan ispalio i to od ovih koji su svejedno bili potencijalni,
ali uvek je moguce da nas Rik ispali, ko prosli put, pa da dzabe dolazimo